War and the United States

[Cow Poke]

I haven't said anything which conflicts with that.

Hmmmm.... didn't think you did... sorry if I seemed to be implying that - was not my intent.

[Seasanctuary]

Heh no problem.

[Faramir]

Oy! Thinking of Gore (or Kerry) in office is absolutely terrifying. Gore may have done more-or-less as well as Bush before 9/11, but after? The mind boggles.

Don't get me wrong--again, I think Gore would have done his best. I'm just not certain his best would have been even as good as Bush.

Reminds me of a Joke I heard at the height of Bush's popularity.

A man and wife are watching the news. Both life long Democrats.

The wife says: "You know dear, I know we didn't vote for president Busy, but he seems to be doing a great job handling this 9/11 crises. I am glad he won the election."

The husband says, "Shut up Tipper."

[technomage]

Reminds me of a Joke I heard at the height of Bush's popularity.

A man and wife are watching the news. Both life long Democrats.

The wife says: "You know dear, I know we didn't vote for president Busy, but he seems to be doing a great job handling this 9/11 crises. I am glad he won the election."

The husband says, "Shut up Tipper."

[gharfish]

Amen!

Saddam had every opportunity to dialogue - it was not a "sudden attack". He perpetuated the myth (if you want to call it that) that he had WMD. He constantly manipulated and obfuscated the efforts of the International Community to prevent them from determining the intent of his "technology" research.

You can find, if you bother to look, numerous quotes from some of Bush's greatest critics who said, prior to the war, Iraq had WMD. They expressed it in absolute terms.

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[gharfish]

It was a totally unnecessary war that has killed thousands and thousands of [relatively] innocent and completely innocent Iraqi civilians. The war's start - reasons for it, was predicated on half-truths and some lies and has cost our country so very very many countrymen and women. It has cost us a fortune, financially. It will be awhile still, but in time Americans will come to realize and accept the terrible mistake (our's) that was this war.


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[gharfish]

CP, I came back here to apologize, publically. (Thank you for your godly graciousness in your PM). I publically tried to slam you with the donation plate google image, which did not survive the site's redesign I notice. But no matter, I say now and here that I was simply a jerk and a hothead to put that up. An image like that, or a collar or a pulpit w/cross is totally N/A; you being a pastor has nothing to do with this. No, not at all. How could I think it right to point this out, and with just a picture too, as if you were giving a thus sayeth the Lord'ism ?! You were not. I made a big mistake and I'm sorry.

I had seen earlier in the thread that you had said "Amen!" to muzicman's statement that is was "true" 'that Saddam was harboring terrorists" and 'also true' that [he] "was developing weapons of mass destruction."

So I blew a fuse and in anger quickly and thoughtlessly slapped-up a cheap image on your quote because I couldn't see in what was a blind spot that a pastor would not condemn the whole war at/by this time. But many people of good conscience do agree with what the muzicman said and that you are one of them has nothing to do with Christianity or your 'official role' in it. Nothing.

I could have been respectful...but I was not. I could have wrote back some thing - anything, in true debate form...but I did not! I decided to do a lazy hit-and-run move, with a picture and not even one word written.

I am bitter and sorrowful about that war and yet I took it out not at the subject but right at you, CP.

This is one of the worst things I have done to a fellow believer here on tweb. I am ashamed that I brought your pastorship into this. I wasn't thinking straight or true; just sure of my own righteousness on the matter..

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[Cow Poke]

CP, I came back here to apologize, publically. (Thank you for your godly graciousness in your PM). I publically tried to slam you with the donation plate google image, which did not survive the site's redesign I notice. But no matter, I say now and here that I was simply a jerk and a hothead to put that up. An image like that, or a collar or a pulpit w/cross is totally N/A; you being a pastor has nothing to do with this. No, not at all. How could I think it right to point this out, and with just a picture too, as if you were giving a thus sayeth the Lord'ism ?! You were not. I made a big mistake and I'm sorry.

I had seen earlier in the thread that you had said "Amen!" to muzicman's statement that is was "true" 'that Saddam was harboring terrorists" and 'also true' that [he] "was developing weapons of mass destruction."

So I blew a fuse and in anger quickly and thoughtlessly slapped-up a cheap image on your quote because I couldn't see in what was a blind spot that a pastor would not condemn the whole war at/by this time. But many people of good conscience do agree with what the muzicman said and that you are one of them has nothing to do with Christianity or your 'official role' in it. Nothing.

I could have been respectful...but I was not. I could have wrote back some thing - anything, in true debate form...but I did not! I decided to do a lazy hit-and-run move, with a picture and not even one word written.

I am bitter and sorrowful about that war and yet I took it out not at the subject but right at you, CP.

This is one of the worst things I have done to a fellow believer here on tweb. I am ashamed that I brought your pastorship into this. I wasn't thinking straight or true; just sure of my own righteousness on the matter..

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Ghar,

Again, I thank you for your sincere apology. I have said numerous times in other places on TWeb, that, lacking facial expression and tone of voice, it is often difficult (if not impossible) to know the real "tone" of what somebody is saying. I know that I, for one, often say things either "tongue in cheek" or in a playful sarcastic tone, or sometimes just push somebody's buttons to get them to think, often yielding results I did not intend.

I don't recall the exact circumstances, but I'm sure I "did my part". I'm a "scrapper", pure and simple, and somehow I see "debating on TWeb" as totally different than discussing something with somebody "in real life".

I push buttons, no doubt.
I prod, and try to make people think.
I type things I would probably not say to somebody sitting across the table from me with a cup of coffee.

But a lot of the reason I do this is to LEARN.
There's an expression "how can I know what I think unless I hear myself say it". (somebody please help me find who credit for that goes to)
And sometimes, I just "shoot from the hip", hoping somebody will "push back", and help me understand (or even change) my position.

I have a military background, and have had some unpleasant experiences in SE Asia, and some of that no doubt affects my perspectives on matters military.
"As iron sharpens iron", I have often learned from others here on TWeb, and that's why I enjoy the "give and take". Sometimes, I take more than I give, and sometimes I give more than I really should, not so much in a good way.

Again, thanks for your PM, and your public apology. I'm sure we'll disagree with each other on other matters in the future, but I have a feeling we'll be able to do it more as friends who have conflicting opinions than as enemies who are simply trying to "win".

God Bless!