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"Youth-led movement"

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  • "Youth-led movement"

    This thread is going to be extremely age-ist and prejudiced. You've been warned.

    I've been hearing this phrase a bit in the past several months, and the concept holds no interest for me at all. It's about one step short of horrifying, actually.

    I don't want to be "youth-led." Sorry, but I'm 27 years old, I've been married five and a half years, have three kids, am a homeowner, have held down a full-time job as an engineer at the same company for also five and a half years, and I don't want to be led by someone with my level of life experience/knowledge/maturity, and certainly not less. I really don't.

    If I'm going to be mentored or discipled by someone, I want it to be someone with life experience; someone who has been tested by life, and who has held firm. I want to hear the wisdom of my elders; I don't particularly want to hear the "wisdom" of some dude in skinny jeans and with too much hair gel.

    Before someone mentions the inevitable, yeah I know about Paul's instructions to Timothy. I actually have a good friend who's about four years older than I am, in approximately the same position in life as I am, and he is successfully pastoring a small church. It's working out, and I respect him a great deal. So yeah, I'm generalizing here.
    I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

  • #2
    lol. I agree. Even on the times I don't like hearing my pastor's instruction or rebuke to me, in retrospection I can tell he's right. And sure, there may be some things where I have studied a little more, but he speaks with the voice of experience in these and all matters having to do with our faith and practice as children of God -- so in the end, I find I'm usually nitpicking. I can't imagine similar interactions with a pastor my own age or barely older than me, unless it was a person who has walked a remarkable path in the Lord, with wisdom and experience beyond their years -- and that is, indeed, hard to come by, and beyond mere generalizations, as you mention.

    In my latest job (a professional training kind of thing, since I'm not yet done with university), my boss is about my own age. While he appreciates my work, I'm doing my best --I hope--, and I appreciate his feedback, it's only logical that a more experienced superior would find more opportunities for improvement in my work, or be more likely to have reservations with some of it, or see more possible new directions I could tackle -- directions that neither I, nor my actual boss, see right now (oh, we do see ways to improve and move forward, but they could be better and more). In fact, my interactions with the company manager were like that, and I usually learned more things when discussing my work with her. She must be in her fifties (and she's a sister in the Lord and an intercessor in her own words, so that's certainly a plus :D).

    Point is, the same mechanics apply. While I am absolutely certain we can provide some younger perspective which may well be needed, and we can be voices of straightforward idealism in some cases (or witnesses to the latest forms of evil), let elders be elders nonetheless
    We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore on Christ's behalf: 'Be reconciled to God!!'
    - 2 Corinthians 5:20.
    In deviantArt: ll-bisto-ll.deviantart.com
    Christian art and more: Christians.deviantart.com

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    • #3
      The only good youth movement is when they move to the front lines.
      Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101

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      • #4
        Me neither. This seems to be a world opinion coming into the church. Look how much emphasis is put on youth and how they will change the world. In the last election, they forgot to show up.

        I favor experience, too. So logically, I would have no issues following a 30 year old with 10 years experience in a subject over a 50 year-old who never did it.
        "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

        "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View Post
          The only good youth movement is when they move to the front lines.
          I thought you were going to say, "The only good youth movement is a bowel movement."
          I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Zymologist View Post
            . . .Before someone mentions the inevitable, yeah I know about Paul's instructions to Timothy. . . .
            Keep in mind that while Timothy was seen as young he had been schooled by Paul. How many of the young church leaders you are thinking of have any where close to that sort of background?
            Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Zymologist View Post
              This thread is going to be extremely age-ist and prejudiced. You've been warned.

              I've been hearing this phrase a bit in the past several months, and the concept holds no interest for me at all. It's about one step short of horrifying, actually.

              I don't want to be "youth-led." Sorry, but I'm 27 years old, I've been married five and a half years, have three kids, am a homeowner, have held down a full-time job as an engineer at the same company for also five and a half years, and I don't want to be led by someone with my level of life experience/knowledge/maturity, and certainly not less. I really don't.

              If I'm going to be mentored or discipled by someone, I want it to be someone with life experience; someone who has been tested by life, and who has held firm. I want to hear the wisdom of my elders; I don't particularly want to hear the "wisdom" of some dude in skinny jeans and with too much hair gel.

              Before someone mentions the inevitable, yeah I know about Paul's instructions to Timothy. I actually have a good friend who's about four years older than I am, in approximately the same position in life as I am, and he is successfully pastoring a small church. It's working out, and I respect him a great deal. So yeah, I'm generalizing here.
              I used to agree, but given successive failures (particularly by boomers) I no longer care. Yes, ideally, an older and more experienced person would be preferrable, but the traditional relationship between ancestors, successors and the living has been utterly obliterated. On top of that the massive, rapid social changes means that old age simply isn't of the same benefit it was when generation after generation grew up, lived and died with very little social change between them. If anything the older you are the harder it is to adapt to new realities, which is a liability when new realities are popping up every few years.
              "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

              There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

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              • #8
                Damn bouncy youth pastors, GIT OFF MY LAWN!

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                • #9
                  My experience went like this:
                  I got thrown into (volunteered if needed) with the youth (13-21 age) prisoners program teaching Bible (one hour on Sunday morning to a group of 14 with three other Christians teaching groups of 14) and taught three groups of “Christians”. The first group is guys (going to school it is called) that start out their stay causing trouble getting thrown in the tank. Then they start increasingly attending the services, carrying their Bible, being nice, and say they are Christians. By the time the parole board meets they have this glowing report showing continued improvement tied to their increased spirituality and are released. These guys still carry weapons, are members of a gang, and every prisoner know they just “went to school” to get out. The second group were converted before they went to prison (grandma conversions), but watch raunchy TV, hang with a loss group, laugh at off colored jokes, are not always talking about Jesus and are not trying to convert others. Their first day in prison the snitches see this, the snitches talk to the Bulls that approach these “Christians” saying you are not a Christian (doing everything Christ would do) and make them a slave (often sexual) or at best gang member. They still come to Bible study on Sunday so they can tell Granny (who visits them Sunday afternoon) what they learned, but they are slaves (sometimes sexually) to some bull. The third group is fanatical, they stick close to each other, they: study, pray, witness to everyone, and avoid even a hint of insincerity that the snitches could see. They carry no weapons, but step between those that are being beaten especially in persecution. This group had grown over the last 3 years from just a couple of guys to now 42, but it came at a high price. Each convert had on the day he was baptized given up the protection of his gang membership, turned over his weapons along with all his possessions (the gang owns everything including them), they were beaten if not by the gang they left, then by other gangs looking for payback and then they were watch constantly looking for any sign the snitches might interpret as weakness (anything less than what Christ would do in the situation, would result in a beating and it could be to death). There is absolutely no privacy and these Christians never wanted to be found alone. They slept in barracks where at least one stayed awake all night praying over them so they could sleep without the fear of being smashed in the head in the middle of the night. These guys believed and counted on power from the Holy Spirit, I did not know existed. They come battered and bruised each week hungry for some real meaningful Christ like lesson that goes beyond their group study of 40+hours that week on the same subject, which I could not provide. They mostly helped me with my poor example of Christianity and lack of knowledge and lack of wisdom. They mentored me even though they were only Christian for a few months, but I was a poor disciple and could not keep up with them.

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                  • #10
                    I'm happy when Protestant ministers don't have a practical uniform of sweatshirts and flipflops.
                    I am become death...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Ana Dragule View Post
                      I'm happy when Protestant ministers don't have a practical uniform of sweatshirts and flipflops.
                      I have been a protestant since my salvation and I have yet to see anything like that. What is the point of your comment?
                      Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
                        I have been a protestant since my salvation and I have yet to see anything like that. What is the point of your comment?
                        Some younger pastors dress very informally. Usually non denominational.
                        "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
                          I have been a protestant since my salvation and I have yet to see anything like that. What is the point of your comment?
                          As Kings Gambit said, its more common in nondenominational groups, also perhaps more common in the south west of the US. I have literally seen that outfit on several ministers.

                          It's hard to take seriously an adult who seems like they are trying so hard to be in with the youth, fit in with the youth, look like the youth, practically be the same kind of youth (+5 to 15 years) and looks more college student-like than I or many of my other friends did as college students. It's like sometimes they try to hard, and that makes it hard to listen to them. A Someone who is actually younger I would probably try to take what they say at least for where they are coming from as a younger person. Maybe authenticity and genuine passion are more important in a movement than age. Flashy Jesus stickers and Jesus-y pop punk music isn't me (at least not any more than overdone worship songs). Sometimes youthfulness is perhaps sometimes mistaken for the merits of youth and a lack of youthfulness for the authentic knowledge and leading of the Spirit.
                          I am become death...

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