Announcement

Collapse

Apologetics 301 Guidelines

If you think this is the area where you tell everyone you are sorry for eating their lunch out of the fridge, it probably isn't the place for you


This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.


Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less

Can The Atheist Do Good?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by seer View Post
    Actually Shuny, Adam was the father of humankind, and through him, his physical life, we receive our "imperfections." And according to your religion Adam was a special creation not born from a previous human being or species. No matter what cycle went before this is what your religion teaches.








    So we inherent our "imperfections" from Adam, and Adam was created without father or mother.
    No, we inherent our imperfections from the nature of being fallible human with a spiritual nature from the Adam of every cycle. Adam is believed to be Created spiritually Divine with a fallible human nature within the world of existing humans from previous cycles of Revelation. Not physically the first human, because the Adamic cylce was on of may cycles of Revelation in humanity.

    Odd line of 'off topic' line of questions not even the subject of the thread.
    Last edited by shunyadragon; 03-20-2017, 05:21 PM.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
      No, we inherent our imperfections from the nature of being fallible human with a spiritual nature from the Adam of every cycle. Adam is believed to be Created spiritually Divine with a fallible human nature within the world of existing humans from previous cycles of Revelation. Not physically the first human, because the Adamic cylce was on of may cycles of Revelation in humanity.
      That is false Shuny, Adam did not have a father or mother, please give your reference that Adam was created from previous humans. And as your faith teaches our physical life, with its imperfections, was inherited from Adam. You can not twist your way out of this.

      Odd line of 'off topic' line of questions not even the subject of the thread.
      It is my thread, I can do as I please.
      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

      Comment


      • Originally posted by seer View Post
        Actually Shuny, Adam was the father of humankind, and through him, his physical life, we receive our "imperfections." And according to your religion Adam was a special creation not born from a previous human being or species. No matter what cycle went before this is what your religion teaches.
        Seer thats ridiculous. To say that through Adam we got our imperfections, is only to argue that we got our imperfections from Adams creator, because obviously Adam sinned, Adam was already imperfect, so the buck can't stop with Adam, his imperfection was his nature, and his nature was not of his own making, it was created. So the buck, the cause of our imperfect natures, would stop with the creator, or maker of Adam, not with Adam himself.







        So we inherent our "imperfections" from Adam, and Adam was created without father or mother.
        As above. For one thing, to believe that is childish, but it also doesn't make sense. Adam can't be said to be the cause of his own imperfect nature, and if all of human kind inherited an imperfect nature, then they inherited it from the creator of Adam, not from Adam himself.

        The above is assuming there is a God of course, which i see no reason to believe there is one, in which case the cause of our nature, is nature itself.
        Last edited by JimL; 03-20-2017, 07:09 PM.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by seer View Post
          So we inherent our "imperfections" from Adam, and Adam was created without father or mother.
          So, Adam is to blame for everything that is wrong with us?

          Or are you suggesting, with those scare quotes, that there is nothing really wrong with us?

          Comment


          • Originally posted by JimL View Post
            Seer thats ridiculous. To say that through Adam we got our imperfections, is only to argue that we got our imperfections from Adams creator, because obviously Adam sinned, Adam was already imperfect, so the buck can't stop with Adam, his imperfection was his nature, and his nature was not of his own making, it was created. So the buck, the cause of our imperfect natures, would stop with the creator, or maker of Adam, not with Adam himself.
            Jim, that is what the Bahai's teach. Though it is not far from my view.
            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Doug Shaver View Post
              So, Adam is to blame for everything that is wrong with us?

              Or are you suggesting, with those scare quotes, that there is nothing really wrong with us?
              No, I'm just showing Shuny what his religion actually teaches.
              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

              Comment


              • Originally posted by seer View Post
                Jim, that is what the Bahai's teach. Though it is not far from my view.
                NO it is NOT! Your selective biased citing of Baha'i scripture does not reflect the teaching of the Baha'i Faith. It only reflects your warped sense of bias against those who believe differently.
                The fallible nature of being human and the Divine nature of the soul is true for the nature of being human in all the cyclic Revelations of God. There is no concept of fault of the Fall and Original Sin blaming Adam and Eve in the teachings of the Baha'i Faith. The only thing that Adam is attributed to the first Revelation of the Adamic cycle and Creation nature of the human nature as fallible and spiritually Divine for that cycle.
                Last edited by shunyadragon; 03-21-2017, 07:25 AM.
                Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                go with the flow the river knows . . .

                Frank

                I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                  NO it is NOT! Your selective biased citing of Baha'i scripture does not reflect the teaching of the Baha'i Faith. It only reflects your warped sense of bias against those who believe differently.
                  The fallible nature of being human and the Divine nature of the soul is true for the nature of being human in all the cyclic Revelations of God. There is no concept of fault of the Fall and Original Sin blaming Adam and Eve in the teachings of the Baha'i Faith. The only thing that Adam is attributed to the first Revelation of the Adamic cycle and Creation nature of the human nature as fallible and spiritually Divine for that cycle.
                  Shuny, I just quoted from your teachings:

                  For the spirit and the soul of Adam, when they were attached to the human world, passed from the world of freedom into the world of bondage, and His descendants continued in bondage. This attachment of the soul and spirit to the human world, which is sin, was inherited by the descendants of Adam

                  and this bondage is identical with sin, which has been transmitted from Adam to His posterity.

                  Know that there are two natures in man: the physical nature and the spiritual nature. The physical nature is inherited from Adam
                  But I'm glad we agree that all humanity are descended from one man, Adam, who live about 6000 years ago and was created without a father or mother.
                  Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by seer View Post
                    Shuny, I just quoted from your teachings:
                    Again your selective hostile citation without understanding context has no meaning.

                    But I'm glad we agree that all humanity are descended from one man, Adam, who live about 6000 years ago and was created without a father or mother.
                    No I do not agree. First in the Baha'i Faith Adam was only the first Manifestation Creation of God and no all humanity did descend form Adam, Humanity has been around for many cycles of Revelation extending back Millennia into the past. The Universal Cycle of Humanity is far older and longer then the Adamic Cycle.

                    You are not understanding of what it means to the 'Father' of humanity, and the Manifestation of God for the beginning a cycle of Revelation, because humanity had been living for millennia prior to Adam. It is true that all the Manifestations of God descended from Adam in the Baha'i teaching. All humanity can share the blood lineage of Adam as well as all of humanity that existed at the time. By the scripture of the Baha'i Faith Adam is not the first human.
                    Last edited by shunyadragon; 03-21-2017, 01:34 PM.
                    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                    go with the flow the river knows . . .

                    Frank

                    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by seer View Post
                      No, I'm just showing Shuny what his religion actually teaches.
                      No you are not, it is selective warped biased citation without understanding the context.
                      Last edited by shunyadragon; 03-21-2017, 01:32 PM.
                      Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                      Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                      But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                      go with the flow the river knows . . .

                      Frank

                      I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                        No you are not, it is selective warped biased citation without understanding the context.
                        I linked all the quotes in their context - you just don't like it.
                        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                          No I do not agree. First in the Baha'i Faith Adam was only the first Manifestation Creation of God and no all humanity did descend form Adam, Humanity has been around for many cycles of Revelation extending back Millennia into the past. The Universal Cycle of Humanity is far older and longer then the Adamic Cycle.
                          That is not what your religion teaches: Adam is the father of man—that is to say, He is the cause of the physical life of mankind; His was the physical fatherhood.


                          You are not understanding of what it means to the 'Father' of humanity, and the Manifestation of God for the beginning a cycle of Revelation, because humanity had been living for millennia prior to Adam. It is true that all the Manifestations of God descended from Adam in the Baha'i teaching. All humanity can share the blood lineage of Adam as well as all of humanity that existed at the time. By the scripture of the Baha'i Faith Adam is not the first human.
                          How can Adam be the physical father of man if man has other fathers? Where does your religion teach that man from these previously cycles still have descendants today? Reference please.
                          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by seer View Post
                            I linked all the quotes in their context - you just don't like it.
                            It should be noted that `Abdu'l-Bahá, who Baha'is regard as inerrant and infallible, also rejected Darwinian evolution, and stated things like,
                            "We have now come to the question of the modification of species and of organic development—that is to say, to the point of inquiring whether man’s descent is from the animal.
                            This theory has found credence in the minds of some European philosophers, and it is now very difficult to make its falseness understood, but in the future it will become evident and clear, and the European philosophers will themselves realize its untruth. For, verily, it is an evident error."

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                              It should be noted that `Abdu'l-Bahá, who Baha'is regard as inerrant and infallible, also rejected Darwinian evolution, and stated things like,
                              "We have now come to the question of the modification of species and of organic development—that is to say, to the point of inquiring whether man’s descent is from the animal.
                              This theory has found credence in the minds of some European philosophers, and it is now very difficult to make its falseness understood, but in the future it will become evident and clear, and the European philosophers will themselves realize its untruth. For, verily, it is an evident error."
                              Shuny is a bit like Starlight in that both of them like to claim expert knowledge of their religion (Starlight's claim to be a former Christian, Shunya claiming to be a Ba'hai) and proving over and over that neither one has a clue what the religions actually teach.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by seer View Post
                                I linked all the quotes in their context - you just don't like it.
                                No you did not! The context includes volumes of Baha'i Writings, and not just a few selective quotes, which I explained.
                                Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                                Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                                But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                                go with the flow the river knows . . .

                                Frank

                                I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                                Comment

                                Related Threads

                                Collapse

                                Topics Statistics Last Post
                                Started by whag, Yesterday, 03:01 PM
                                14 responses
                                43 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post tabibito  
                                Started by whag, 03-17-2024, 04:55 PM
                                21 responses
                                129 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Hypatia_Alexandria  
                                Started by whag, 03-14-2024, 06:04 PM
                                78 responses
                                411 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post tabibito  
                                Started by whag, 03-13-2024, 12:06 PM
                                45 responses
                                303 views
                                1 like
                                Last Post Hypatia_Alexandria  
                                Working...
                                X