Pope Francis: Christians and Muslims Worship the Same God?

[Jedidiah]

But indian christians say deva/bhagwan for God but that doesnt mean they worship hindu gods.When arab christians say allah they refer to the father son and holy spirit same way indian christians say deva to refer to the father son and holy spirit. Just like allah is word for god in arab land same way deva is a word for god in the land of india.Both are pagan words used to refer to true god.

The word for god in English is not the same word as the word for god in Greek or Hebrew. It is not the name but the being it is assigned to. Allah assigned to the Christian God is fine, if it is applied to the muslim god it is not referring to the same god.

[Scrawly]

Do Muslims worship (whatever that means) the same God as Christian's? Who cares! Are Muslims saved? No. Muslims need the gospel.

Do Orthodox Jews worship (whatever that means) the same God as Christian's? Who cares! Are Orthodox Jews saved? No. Orthodox Jews need the gospel.

We all know this anyway but this discussion can get nauseating -- so I painted it black and white.

[Thoughtful Monk]

I could agree that "Muslim worship the same God as Christians, and Christians worship this God in his fullness" kind of argument if Islam did *not* have an explicit denial of the Trinity and weren't so offended by the implications of the phrase "God crucified."

This reminds me of something I discovered in the past year. Apparently at one time in parts of Christianity, Islam was viewed a Christian heresy. From reading their writings, I think G. K. Chesterton and C. S. Lewis held this view. I admit I don't know any current preachers or teachers who hold this view.

[Bisto]

Do Muslims worship (whatever that means) the same God as Christian's? Who cares! Are Muslims saved? No. Muslims need the gospel.

Do Orthodox Jews worship (whatever that means) the same God as Christian's? Who cares! Are Orthodox Jews saved? No. Orthodox Jews need the gospel.

We all know this anyway but this discussion can get nauseating -- so I painted it black and white.

I think this needs to be stressed. Several posts throughout the thread seemed to read "They worship the same god" as "Therefore they don't need the gospel and/or are saved", but I don't think anyone here means to say such a thing.

On the question of whether it is the same god or not, I tend to go more with #TeamAdrift rather than #TeamSparko here. Admittedly, I know very little of Islam, so my opinion may mean very little here

[noikodee]

The word for god in English is not the same word as the word for god in Greek or Hebrew. It is not the name but the being it is assigned to. Allah assigned to the Christian God is fine, if it is applied to the muslim god it is not referring to the same god.

Father Son and holy spirit can be refered by any word in a persons native language as long it is for this True God. if indian christians want to use deva word they can use it, if arabic christians want to use allah word they can use it. We dont worship words itself but whom they refer to.

''It is not the name but the being it is assigned to'' What do you mean by this? Word for god and name of god is totally different.Name of God is Jesus as we know him .in today's times. Allah is a word for god and not a name. But i do come across muslims who say it is a name.Some say it is word. Some even say allah is just allah not a name or a word. This allah word was first used by pagan arabs thats how this word remained in the arab land.It was later used by arab christians and jews to refer to God of Torah and the gospel in the arab land.Than it was used for this one who claims to be god in the quran.

[Adrift]

I think this needs to be stressed. Several posts throughout the thread seemed to read "They worship the same god" as "Therefore they don't need the gospel and/or are saved", but I don't think anyone here means to say such a thing.

I was hoping that my repeated emphasis that Muslims are in need of evangelism made it more than clear that I thought Muslims need the Gospel and need to be saved. Honestly, it seems like one of those things that should go without saying on an orthodox Christian subforum.

[Jedidiah]

Father Son and holy spirit can be refered by any word in a persons native language as long it is for this True God. if indian christians want to use deva word they can use it, if arabic christians want to use allah word they can use it. We dont worship words itself but whom they refer to.

''It is not the name but the being it is assigned to'' What do you mean by this? . . .

Exactly what you wrote in the first paragraph. If I stated it poorly, my apologies.

[Sparko]

I was hoping that my repeated emphasis that Muslims are in need of evangelism made it more than clear that I thought Muslims need the Gospel and need to be saved. Honestly, it seems like one of those things that should go without saying on an orthodox Christian subforum.

I took that as understood. In fact that is one of the many reasons I think they don't worship the same God as we do. because they are not saved.

[Leonhard]

I took that as understood. In fact that is one of the many reasons I think they don't worship the same God as we do. because they are not saved.

I don't think merely obeying the first commandment and giving God honor is sufficient for salvation. Without repentance and contrition, without being joined to the body of Christ (the Church) I think it's impossible for anyone to be saved.

Nulla Salus Extra Ecclesiam.

[Leonhard]

I was hoping that my repeated emphasis that Muslims are in need of evangelism made it more than clear that I thought Muslims need the Gospel and need to be saved. Honestly, it seems like one of those things that should go without saying on an orthodox Christian subforum.

I second this.

[Sparko]

I don't think merely obeying the first commandment and giving God honor is sufficient for salvation. Without repentance and contrition, without being joined to the body of Christ (the Church) I think it's impossible for anyone to be saved.

Nulla Salus Extra Ecclesiam.

they can't be saved because they don't believe Jesus is God, that they need to accept his sacrifice (which would not even count unless he is God) or that he even was sacrificed. so they don't worship the same God we do. and that is why they are not saved.

They are not God's people.

God does not accept them or their worship.

He is not their God.

[Ana Dragule]

Does not having the same idea of who God is necessitate that it is a different God that one believes in and worships?
Can one worship the same God even though they have a different idea of who He is?

[Ana Dragule]

I thought this was an interesting analogy-feel free to dissect.

But doesn’t Christianity affirm that God is a Trinity while Muslims deny it? Wouldn’t this mean that they indeed worship different “Gods”? Not necessarily. Consider this example. Imagine that Fred believes that the evidence is convincing that Thomas Jefferson (TJ) sired several children with his slave Sally Hemings (SH), and thus Fred believes that TJ has the property of “being a father to several of SHs children.” On the other hand, suppose Bob does not find the evidence convincing and thus believes that TJ does not have the property of “being a father to several of SHs children.”

Would it follow from this that Fred and Bob do not believe that the Third President of the United States was the same man? Of course not. In the same way, Abraham and Moses did not believe that God is a Trinity, but St. Augustine, St. Thomas Aquinas, and Billy Graham do. Does that mean that Augustine, Aquinas, and Graham do not worship the same God as Abraham and Moses? Again, of course not. The fact that one may have incomplete knowledge or hold a false belief about another person – whether human or divine – does not mean that someone who has better or truer knowledge about that person is not thinking about the same person. https://www.thecatholicthing.org/201...-the-same-god/

[One Bad Pig]

I would like to note though since anyone showing liberal tendencies these days is shot down,

By all that's holy, Leonhard, please stop taking disagreement so personally. I don't like passive-aggressive behavior in conservatives any more than I do in liberals. I never disagree with someone simply because he/she is a liberal. You'll see "Amens" from me on posts by Starlight, and those are not accidental. I like Adrift, even though I largely disagree with him in this instance. I'll get over it - only liking people with my exact beliefs would be boring. I like you too, even though I disagree with you more often than not.

/digression

[KingsGambit]

Why hasn't there been any discussion of Paul's speech at the Areopagus (Acts 17)? This is where Paul quotes the Greek poets in evangelizing to the Greeks.

In Acts 17:23, Paul suggests that some of the Greeks were worshiping God but not even aware of it. (My understanding of the context of this is that the polytheistic Greeks, not wanting to offend any god, would put up altars to an "Unknown god".) In the next few verses, Paul suggests that the pagan Greeks have nonetheless still gotten some things right about God.

I had a friend years ago who was Mormon but not particularly devout. She ended up later going to a non-denominational Protestant church and I don't think saw it as a drastic change. I don't know how serious she ever was about any of it but it would seem arbitrary to me to say that one week she was worshiping one God and the other week she wasn't, absent a total conscious change in worldview. (I say that because I don't think there was one. She simply thought as a Mormon she already was a Christian, and now she was going to "another" Christian church.)

So even if members of cults that are offshoots of Christianity are completely wrong in their concept of God and do not have a saving knowledge of God, it's still a leap to say it's a different God altogether.