Originally posted by noikodee
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Pope Francis: Christians and Muslims Worship the Same God?
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Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?
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Do Muslims worship (whatever that means) the same God as Christian's? Who cares! Are Muslims saved? No. Muslims need the gospel.
Do Orthodox Jews worship (whatever that means) the same God as Christian's? Who cares! Are Orthodox Jews saved? No. Orthodox Jews need the gospel.
We all know this anyway but this discussion can get nauseating -- so I painted it black and white.
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Originally posted by Jin-roh View PostI could agree that "Muslim worship the same God as Christians, and Christians worship this God in his fullness" kind of argument if Islam did *not* have an explicit denial of the Trinity and weren't so offended by the implications of the phrase "God crucified.""For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6
"Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom
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Originally posted by Scrawly View PostDo Muslims worship (whatever that means) the same God as Christian's? Who cares! Are Muslims saved? No. Muslims need the gospel.
Do Orthodox Jews worship (whatever that means) the same God as Christian's? Who cares! Are Orthodox Jews saved? No. Orthodox Jews need the gospel.
We all know this anyway but this discussion can get nauseating -- so I painted it black and white.
On the question of whether it is the same god or not, I tend to go more with #TeamAdrift rather than #TeamSparko here. Admittedly, I know very little of Islam, so my opinion may mean very little hereWe are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore on Christ's behalf: 'Be reconciled to God!!'- 2 Corinthians 5:20.
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Originally posted by Jedidiah View PostThe word for god in English is not the same word as the word for god in Greek or Hebrew. It is not the name but the being it is assigned to. Allah assigned to the Christian God is fine, if it is applied to the muslim god it is not referring to the same god.
''It is not the name but the being it is assigned to'' What do you mean by this? Word for god and name of god is totally different.Name of God is Jesus as we know him .in today's times. Allah is a word for god and not a name. But i do come across muslims who say it is a name.Some say it is word. Some even say allah is just allah not a name or a word. This allah word was first used by pagan arabs thats how this word remained in the arab land.It was later used by arab christians and jews to refer to God of Torah and the gospel in the arab land.Than it was used for this one who claims to be god in the quran.
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Originally posted by Bisto View PostI think this needs to be stressed. Several posts throughout the thread seemed to read "They worship the same god" as "Therefore they don't need the gospel and/or are saved", but I don't think anyone here means to say such a thing.
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Originally posted by noikodee View PostFather Son and holy spirit can be refered by any word in a persons native language as long it is for this True God. if indian christians want to use deva word they can use it, if arabic christians want to use allah word they can use it. We dont worship words itself but whom they refer to.Originally posted by noikodee View Post''It is not the name but the being it is assigned to'' What do you mean by this? . . .Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?
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Originally posted by Adrift View PostI was hoping that my repeated emphasis that Muslims are in need of evangelism made it more than clear that I thought Muslims need the Gospel and need to be saved. Honestly, it seems like one of those things that should go without saying on an orthodox Christian subforum.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostI took that as understood. In fact that is one of the many reasons I think they don't worship the same God as we do. because they are not saved.
Nulla Salus Extra Ecclesiam.
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Originally posted by Adrift View PostI was hoping that my repeated emphasis that Muslims are in need of evangelism made it more than clear that I thought Muslims need the Gospel and need to be saved. Honestly, it seems like one of those things that should go without saying on an orthodox Christian subforum.
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Originally posted by Leonhard View PostI don't think merely obeying the first commandment and giving God honor is sufficient for salvation. Without repentance and contrition, without being joined to the body of Christ (the Church) I think it's impossible for anyone to be saved.
Nulla Salus Extra Ecclesiam.
They are not God's people.
God does not accept them or their worship.
He is not their God.
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Originally posted by Leonhard View PostI would like to note though since anyone showing liberal tendencies these days is shot down,
/digressionVeritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Why hasn't there been any discussion of Paul's speech at the Areopagus (Acts 17)? This is where Paul quotes the Greek poets in evangelizing to the Greeks.
In Acts 17:23, Paul suggests that some of the Greeks were worshiping God but not even aware of it. (My understanding of the context of this is that the polytheistic Greeks, not wanting to offend any god, would put up altars to an "Unknown god".) In the next few verses, Paul suggests that the pagan Greeks have nonetheless still gotten some things right about God.
I had a friend years ago who was Mormon but not particularly devout. She ended up later going to a non-denominational Protestant church and I don't think saw it as a drastic change. I don't know how serious she ever was about any of it but it would seem arbitrary to me to say that one week she was worshiping one God and the other week she wasn't, absent a total conscious change in worldview. (I say that because I don't think there was one. She simply thought as a Mormon she already was a Christian, and now she was going to "another" Christian church.)
So even if members of cults that are offshoots of Christianity are completely wrong in their concept of God and do not have a saving knowledge of God, it's still a leap to say it's a different God altogether."I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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