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An argument for Monotheism

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  • #46
    Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
    An assertion on your part based on your agenda, and not based on objective evidence.
    I have incorporated your statement in line 1 below to show you the first part of your claim is false.
    1. It remains possible the nature of our existence and Natural Law is eternal, and without prior cause.
    2. Yet man is a contingent thing.
    3. For man does not exist from necessity, but may not exist.
    4. Hence the being of man, (whereby being is the actuality of all acts) is a being caused by another cause.
    5. Hence because the being of man is caused by another, man cannot be the prime cause.


    Line 4 discussed.

    Being as the actuality of all acts. As being makes actual all things, then the being of a thing is the most fundamental act of the thing. As the most fundamental act of a thing cannot be caused by the thing, for the thing would cause its own being before the thing existed, then the being of a thing must be caused by another.

    The above argument applies to things that have being and thereby participate in being, or in another way, have being by participation. What has being by participation is a thing that is dependent upon another cause and ultimately the prime cause, which is the necessary being. Hence the claim that nature of our existence is without a prior cause is a false claim.

    Your claim that Natural Law is eternal, and without prior cause is also false for natural law follows upon human nature as a measure of human acts. As NL is dependent upon the existence of men, then natural law is not the prime cause.

    JM

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by JohnMartin View Post
      I have incorporated your statement in line 1 below to show you the first part of your claim is false.
      1. It remains possible the nature of our existence and Natural Law is eternal, and without prior cause.
      2. Yet man is a contingent thing.
      3. For man does not exist from necessity, but may not exist.
      4. Hence the being of man, (whereby being is the actuality of all acts) is a being caused by another cause.
      5. Hence because the being of man is caused by another, man cannot be the prime cause.


      Line 4 discussed.

      Being as the actuality of all acts. As being makes actual all things, then the being of a thing is the most fundamental act of the thing. As the most fundamental act of a thing cannot be caused by the thing, for the thing would cause its own being before the thing existed, then the being of a thing must be caused by another.

      The above argument applies to things that have being and thereby participate in being, or in another way, have being by participation. What has being by participation is a thing that is dependent upon another cause and ultimately the prime cause, which is the necessary being. Hence the claim that nature of our existence is without a prior cause is a false claim.

      Your claim that Natural Law is eternal, and without prior cause is also false for natural law follows upon human nature as a measure of human acts. As NL is dependent upon the existence of men, then natural law is not the prime cause.

      JM
      Already addressed. It is possible that humans exist as a result of the nature of our physical existence, and Natural Law. The only objective verifiable evidence we have confirms this. The physical nature of our existence and Natural Law predates human existence and the existence of life from which humans evolved.
      Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
      Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
      But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

      go with the flow the river knows . . .

      Frank

      I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
        Than logic is flawed and not ALL 'causes' are finite and temporal. Is not God a cause?

        It remains possible the nature of our existence and Natural Law is eternal, and without prior cause.
        Your monotheistic view of God is flawed.

        God being the "Uncaused Cause." (Genesis 1;1; John 1:3; Colossians 1:16-17; Hebrews 1:2; John 1:2, 10.) What is uncaused is eternal. All causes are finite and temporal in being a cause. It cannot be any other way. What is eternal is one nature - what can be temporal is also another in nature and both (John 1:1, 14).
        . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

        . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

        Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by 37818 View Post
          Your monotheistic view of God is flawed.

          God being the "Uncaused Cause." (Genesis 1;1; John 1:3; Colossians 1:16-17; Hebrews 1:2; John 1:2, 10.) What is uncaused is eternal. All causes are finite and temporal in being a cause. It cannot be any other way. What is eternal is one nature - what can be temporal is also another in nature and both (John 1:1, 14).
          Argument from scripture does not resolve the issue that it is possible that the nature of our physical existence and Natural Law is possibly eternal without prior cause.
          Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
          Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
          But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

          go with the flow the river knows . . .

          Frank

          I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

          Comment


          • #50
            Is monotheism even Biblical?
            Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101

            Comment


            • #51
              Jews believed in other gods, but they were supposed to be inferior and not worshipped, so no. Bahai is a lame attempt to "me too" islam that didn't really work out very well, as evidenced by the fact that tweb's foremost alleged Bahai blatantly disobeys his religion's dictates against getting involved in politics by arguing with and shilling for liberalism in civics and anti-theism in apologetics every day. There's a reason why he was forced to change his faith on his profile.
              "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

              There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                Already addressed. It is possible that humans exist as a result of the nature of our physical existence, and Natural Law. The only objective verifiable evidence we have confirms this. The physical nature of our existence and Natural Law predates human existence and the existence of life from which humans evolved.
                You have ignored my argument and your statement "the physical nature of our existence . . . predates human existence and the existence of life from which humans evolved" contains an absurdity. The absurdity is physical nature of our existence cannot predate human existence, for man would exist before man existed. Your world view is anti intellectual.

                JM

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View Post
                  Is monotheism even Biblical?
                  Actually the Old Testament the concept of God(s) evolved from polytheism, to a Supreme God over lesser Gods, and than to monotheism.
                  Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                  Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                  But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                  go with the flow the river knows . . .

                  Frank

                  I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                    Actually the Old Testament the concept of God(s) evolved from polytheism, to a Supreme God over lesser Gods, and than to monotheism.
                    The New Testament talks about 'principalities and powers' above mankind.
                    I wonder at times if there is a whole hierarchy above man as complicated as vast as the hierarchy below man (the animal kingdom).
                    Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by JohnMartin View Post
                      You have ignored my argument and your statement "the physical nature of our existence . . . predates human existence and the existence of life from which humans evolved" contains an absurdity. The absurdity is physical nature of our existence cannot predate human existence, for man would exist before man existed. Your world view is anti intellectual.

                      JM
                      I did not ignore your argument and it is not an intellectual and sound logical argument. It is simple an assertion of belief repeated over an over ad nauseum since you began posting.
                      Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                      Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                      But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                      go with the flow the river knows . . .

                      Frank

                      I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                        I did not ignore your argument and it is not an intellectual and sound logical argument. It is simple an assertion of belief repeated over an over ad nauseum since you began posting.
                        And your statement is an assertion without evidence. you have ignored the argument and proposed not counter argument and proposed no argument for your position.

                        JM

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                          Argument from scripture does not resolve the issue that it is possible that the nature of our physical existence and Natural Law is possibly eternal without prior cause.
                          A couple things. First from the perspective of said writings being God's word it does resolve the issue. And how would it be possible as you suppose? Besides that, natural laws only govern what is finite and temporal.
                          . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                          . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                          Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                          Comment

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