Do Mormons actually READ FAIR?

[Cow Poke]

Challenged by Mormon TWebbers about the utilization of "anti" sources, I have, for some time now, pretty much limited all of my "investigation" of Mormondom to MORMON Sources.

At the moment, I have spent inordinate amounts of time reading FAIR, and following the links in each article.
I think we can agree that FAIR is a pro-Mormon source.
I think, if we're honest, we're going to agree that the treatment of Joseph Smith would be "most fair" (pun intended) to Smith.

Assuming we can agree on those points, I am ASTOUNDED at the things that FAIR pretty much "admits", and how frequently FAIR seems to counter it's own "apologetics" with explanations attempting to explain other things.

I'm currently studying FAIR's various accounts of Smith's first vision, and detailing the various accounts thereof, attempting to reconcile them with each other.

So... Do Mormons ever actually sit and READ FAIR???? Or is it just a "source" for your apologetics. I see many of the very same arguments from FAIR that Tweb Mormons make, and against which John Dehlin advises.

[nrajeff]

I read the Journal occasionally, but most of the time I just rely on logic and common sense to refute the most common attacks on the LDS. If one of the attackers demands footnoted research, then FAIR is one place to go to get it for the attacker. For example, if the attacker demands evidence of precolumbian whatever, and if that evidence is documented at FAIR, then it's REALLY hard for me to see any reasonable, honest person having a cow if I retrieve the documentation for them, from where it's been made available.

[Cow Poke]

I read the Journal occasionally, but most of the time I just rely on logic and common sense to refute the most common attacks on the LDS. If one of the attackers demands footnoted research, then FAIR is one place to go to get it for the attacker. For example, if the attacker demands evidence of precolumbian whatever, and if that evidence is documented at FAIR, then it's REALLY hard for me to see any reasonable, honest person having a cow if I retrieve the documentation for them, from where it's been made available.

Thanks, Jeff

[Bill the Cat]

But FAIR has been accused of improper footnotes on more than one occasion.

[nrajeff]

But FAIR has been accused of improper footnotes on more than one occasion.

---What research-gathering organization hasn't?

[Bill the Cat]

true.

[Kevin Graham]

FAIR is a joke

[master_mormon]

I read FAIR stuff and a lot of other stuff both pro LDS and anti LDS. I figure the best way to come to an understanding on any issue is look at both sides of the argument and getting the best representation that exach sides gives. Sometimes FAIR does well and other times it does not do well. I think that could be said for any organization.

[Cow Poke]

I read FAIR stuff and a lot of other stuff both pro LDS and anti LDS. I figure the best way to come to an understanding on any issue is look at both sides of the argument and getting the best representation that exach sides gives. Sometimes FAIR does well and other times it does not do well. I think that could be said for any organization.

No argument. Do you think FAIR is actually trying to present "both sides", or primarily is a defense site for the Mormon case?

[Bill the Cat]

FAIR is a joke

You know they still have several links to your old site there?

[Cow Poke]

This from FAIR

FairMormon.Org

At one point during the translation process, Martin Harris pressured Joseph into letting Martin take the transcript to show to his wife, who had been upset with Martin over his involvement with the Book of Mormon translation. These pages, which covered over 300 years of Nephite history and religious discourse, were lost and never recovered. This event had been foreseen by God, and when the plates had been originally assembled, Mormon had been inspired to include a separate set of plates that covered some of the time period as covered by the lost manuscript.

© source where applicable

If the event had been forseen by God....

FAIR

The gold plates were taken by the angel after the translation, but a number of witnesses were allowed to see and feel them. Martin Harris, David Whitmer, and Oliver Cowdery (the “Three Witnesses”) were visited by an angel, who showed them the plates, and these witnesses heard the voice of God declaring the translation to be correct (note that many critics of the Church unjustifiably assume this means the original manuscript was perfect and thus no changes of any kind should have been needed or made in the published Book of Mormon). Another eight men were allowed to see, handle, and lift the plates, though there was no spiritual or supernatural event associated with it. The written testimonies of the three and eight witnesses appears at the front of the printed editions of the Book of Mormon.

In addition to the testimony of the twelve official witnesses (Joseph Smith, the Three Witnesses, and the Eight Witnesses), a number of other people also were witnesses to the existence of the plates. Most of these experiences occurred under natural circumstances, such as Emma moving them and hearing the metallic sound of their rustling under their covering while she was doing housecleaning. Others had miraculous experiences, such as Mary Whitmer being shown the plates by Moroni after she had sacrificed so much to support Joseph while he translated the plates in her home

© source where applicable

Emma moved them while housecleaning --- GOLD PLATES just left "covered" and she moved them "hearing the metallic rustling"...
A) How HEAVY were the gold plates?
2) Gold plates make a "rustling sound"?


It is AMAZING to me that anybody can type this with a straight face (so to speak)

[One Bad Pig]

I seem to recall some rube named Jeremiah recreating an entire scroll after it got burned.

Jeremiah 1
Joe 0

[Catholicity]

Actually right now, I think the best way to learn about LDS is to read the actual documents themselves. Though I have found the material difficult to sift through. its interesting to say the least

[Sparko]

zombie_06_walk.gif

[ke7ejx]

I read it on occasion, but I generally use it as a spark note if there's something I want clarification on.