Joseph Smith dishonors his wife, Emma.

[OtherCheek]

so defending your faith is just a game?

This forum is a game, yes. And we are all players, yes.

I take it very serious, OC. Not only does my eternal destination hang in the balance of knowing the truth, but yours also. If I didn't care about what happens to you, I would not bother to try to keep convincing you that you are in a cult. But it does matter and it is NOT a game, or an ego sport.

When I stand before God I want to be able to say that I tried my best to spread the true gospel and to save people out of false religion. People such as yourself. I may not always do it the right way, or the best way there is, but it is the best way I know.

apologetics is not a game. It is defending the faith and preaching the gospel.

Apologetics IS a game. It's all about one-up-man-ship, and ego, and getting others to high-five you for your zinger. I'm guilty of this too. But that's the way I see it. There really isn't a lot to take seriously here. A few people I take seriously, but not most.

JB, I take seriously, AP half the time I take seriously, OSF, I take seriously, OBP I take seriously, Franktalk I take seriously, and a few from other forums that don't come here very often, but that's really all that comes to mind right now.

[wonbyone]

This forum is a game, yes. And we are all players, yes.



Apologetics IS a game. It's all about one-up-man-ship, and ego, and getting others to high-five you for your zinger. I'm guilty of this too. But that's the way I see it. There really isn't a lot to take seriously here. A few people I take seriously, but not most.

JB, I take seriously, AP half the time I take seriously, OSF, I take seriously, OBP I take seriously, Franktalk I take seriously, and a few from other forums that don't come here very often, but that's really all that comes to mind right now.

I take ldstrue seriously.
















You guys know I was kidding!

[Cow Poke]

This forum is a game, yes. And we are all players, yes.

That could well be true.

Apologetics IS a game.

To you, perhaps... I take the defense of my faith seriously, like when you mangle the Word of God by saying the Bible says Jesus whipped people... that's not a game - that's an attack on the person of Christ to excuse the actions of Joseph Smith who destroyed a printing press.

Not only were you "proving" that Christ "did that too", you were trying to show that Christ "did worse".

[OtherCheek]

[QUOTE=CP;2978342]That could well be true.

To you, perhaps... I take the defense of my faith seriously, like when you mangle the Word of God by saying the Bible says Jesus whipped people... that's not a game - that's an attack on the person of Christ to excuse the actions of Joseph Smith who destroyed a printing press.

Not only were you "proving" that Christ "did that too", you were trying to show that Christ "did worse".

You hate it when your hypocrisy and double standard is revealed, I know. It's like a small child having his favorite annoying toy taken from him.

[Cow Poke]

You hate it when your hypocrisy and double standard is revealed, I know. It's like a small child having his favorite annoying toy taken from him.

Well, we won't know, because every time I challenge you to demonstrate my "double standard", you bail.

You are full of false accusations and name calling - something you said you are above!

My hunger and thirst for truth and right and good goes far deeper than a shallow contest of words.

Yeah, right! THAT is hypocrisy, and you're too blind to see it. I can PROVE your hypocrisy. All you can do is make false accusations.

And I don't have a whole lot of hate, OC... I don't hate you, I don't hate what you believe... but you sure do sound bitter. Where is your Joy?

So, one more time...
please prove to me this "double standard" you allege.
You are FULL of false accusations, not just against ME, but against JESUS! (at least I'm in good company! )

[OtherCheek]

Show me ONE THING about which I have been dishonest, OC.
And make it FACT... no more silly false accusations.
Man up!
So, you're playing games again.. you're bitter.

I'll tell you what. When I see you step into an atheist hotbed, owned and operated by atheists, and start defending your own faith, then you can talk.

Either do that and defend your faith there, or fold like deck of cards.

[ApologiaPhoenix]

And in your fantasy, you have won arguments. Big whoop. I've been showing anti-Mormons how wrong they are too for several years now and have won a lot of arguments in my own imagination too. Big whoop.

No. In reality, I win debates. Feel free to go to our debate section and look over the debates I've been on. Because the other person doesn't convert is not a sign of a loss but the hardness of a heart.

And mine is condemned by atheists and Christian critics too. I've presented my views for years now, and have never found an argument or question I didn't have an answer for. And I've won all of my debates in my own fantasy too, just like you have.

So, now what?

Oh no. I freely admit that in the past I got mine handed to me several times. That just made me study harder. While you say you've never found an argument you couldn't answer, I think you're confusing an answer with a good answer. Pointing to a subjective experience to convince someone is not a good answer.

See, this last parting shot of yours, is the kind of stuff that is indicative of someone for whom apologetics is an ego sport. A type of chess match, where winning the match is all that matters.

No. It's to make you examine your own presuppositions. Could it be you see it as ego because you don't have the same confidence yourself?

This is my biggest complaint against apologetics. It is not a pursuit of truth. It is a contest of egos and one liners, and snickering remarks, and jabs, and ad homs, and one-up-man-ship. And I am as guilty as anyone else here.

Because when someone comes to destroy the flock, we should befriend them.

I think the Gospel of Jesus Christ was meant to be taught. The Gospel is revealed truth, unlike math truths such as 2+2=4, religious truth is not determined by experiment or the sciences. The craft of "argumentation" is at home on those fields. But the Gospel of Jesus Christ was meant to be taught. When Paul taught the Gospel, he did not talk day after to the same people for years answering the same interrogative questions over and over, and trying to one-up his opponents.

This is not to prove special revelation. I don't think apologetics can do that. This is to defend special revelation and to show that it is rational and coherent and this can indeed do that.

When people believed, it was the Spirit that opened their eyes and ears, not some smart-alecy zinger from Paul.

Why do you think he zinged his opponents so often then?

There is nothing you or anyone else has asked here that I have not seen on other forums or this forum time and time again, and answered time and time again.

So, now what?

Yea I like defending my faith, but I prefer to teach it, and clarify what we DO believe and DON'T believe, and if others don't want to believe, that's their choice.

All this from someone who earlier said he doesn't have the time. Amazing how that time suddenly appears....

[Cow Poke]

I'll tell you what. When I see you step into an atheist hotbed, owned and operated by atheists, and start defending your own faith, then you can talk.

OH FOR CRYIN OUT LOUD

So typical of you, OC... I call you out on your outlandish false accusations, so you change the rules, and TRY to change the subject. We REALLY DO need a "backpeddle" emoticon.

You are SO phony. I deal with atheists in REAL LIFE, as the Spirit leads them to me, or presents opportunity. NEVER ONCE have I felt led of the Spirit to go to an atheist website. If you want to do that, YOU do that... I really don't care!
Why are YOU here? Just to do battle? Or do you feel led of the Spirit to be here?

Either do that and defend your faith there, or fold like deck of cards.

So... since you can't actually substantiate your FALSE ACCUSATIONS, you want me to go to a different battlefield of your choosing?

We're HERE OC... deal with it.
But you can always take solace in the fact that Jo will always AMEN any dumb thing you say!

Here's the issue, OC... you have made false accusations, and you can't back them up. And all you have is "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" and "go fight on some other battlefield".

Sheeeeeeeesh!

The very INSTANT that you can be a big boy and be civil, I will do likewise. You can't. You have too much bitterness. It's like a cancer, OC... it only eats at its carrier.

Scripture Verse:

Heb 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: 15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;

I've suggested before a return to civility... I'd be pleased to death to back it up.

[Sparko]

How dishonest of you.

I'll tell you what. When I see you step into an atheist hotbed, owned and operated by atheists, and start defending your own faith, then you can talk.

And if there is such an atheist message board, owned and operated by atheists, which you post regularly at for several years, answering their same questions over and over again; then let me know about it, because I'll just sit back and watch, and make little comments now and again, and hope someone else shows up to carry the water for me.

I was on such a board for a while (along with Trout and Meh Gerbil) - the Infidel Guy's forum. We easily held our own. There were a few like Yo Lunch types on there that merely spewed ignorant remarks, but there were some that were intelligent atheists and agnostics and we had some pretty good debates there. We were there during one of the "banning auctions" we have here at tweb, where people pay to ban us for a while, and so since we couldn't get on here, we went to that other forum. Heck a couple of the atheists even followed us back here!

A few months after we were there, the Infidel Guy closed his forum. Maybe we had something to do with it

But regardless, I had no problems there defending my faith. I didn't run away or hide.

[Sparko]

This forum is a game, yes. And we are all players, yes.



Apologetics IS a game. It's all about one-up-man-ship, and ego, and getting others to high-five you for your zinger. I'm guilty of this too. But that's the way I see it. There really isn't a lot to take seriously here. A few people I take seriously, but not most.

JB, I take seriously, AP half the time I take seriously, OSF, I take seriously, OBP I take seriously, Franktalk I take seriously, and a few from other forums that don't come here very often, but that's really all that comes to mind right now.

Then why are you here? If your family time is so precious, and you think this is all a waste of time and a silly game, then why do you stay here? Why do you keep coming back? Why do you start your own threads on various topics?

I think what happens is that you want to defend your faith and sometimes you actually try. But then comes times when you recognize that what we have presented has no good answer. And because you refuse to acknowledge that you could be wrong, your only recourse is to ignore the evidence. But you don't want to look ignorant, or look like you have given up because you are too proud. So to try to save face, you have to post again, and since you can't give a defense, your posts end up speaking about how holy your faith is and how awful we are to question it. In other words you hurl elephant dung in an attempt to save face and change the topic.

Jo does the same thing. It's pretty transparent to me and the others what you are doing.

[ApologiaPhoenix]

A few months after we were there, the Infidel Guy closed his forum. Maybe we had something to do with it

It was the smell. You three left too much of a stench behind.

[Sparko]

It was the smell. You three left too much of a stench behind.

well Justin and LGM were there too. can't blame the smell just on us.

[Cow Poke]

I'll tell you what. When I see you step into an atheist hotbed, owned and operated by atheists, and start defending your own faith, then you can talk.

Either do that and defend your faith there, or fold like deck of cards.

I think i'm gonna come over there and WHOOP UP ON YOU!!!!
(are you bigger than me?)

[cajun joke]

Boudreaux live across the bayou from Clarence, who Boudreaux did not like, no way. But there was no bridge or other easy way to cross the bayou so the two would argue and yell and cuss across the bayou. Boudreaux would often yell across the bayou to Clarence, "Clarence, if I had a way to cross dat bayou, I would come beat you up fer sure!".

The threats continued for many years.

One day the state built a bridge across the Bayou.
Soon after the bridge was built, Boudreaux's wife, Marie, say "Boudreaux, you been talking about going across dat bayou to beat up Clarence all dese years. Now that they have dat bridge, what you waiting for?"
So Boudreaux decided it was time to go see Clarence, and he start walking down to the bridge.
Just as he gettin ready to cross the bridge, he look up at the sign on the bridge, reads it, and go back home.

When Boudreaux gets home, Marie asks "Mais, Boudreaux, did you go beat up Clarence ALREADY?" Boudreaux say, "Mais no Marie, dat sign on dat bridge say 'Clearance 13 feet 9 inches'. Clarence don't look NEAR dat big from DIS side o' de bayou!"

[Pilgrim]

I'll tell you what. When I see you step into an atheist hotbed, owned and operated by atheists, and start defending your own faith, then you can talk.

Either do that and defend your faith there, or fold like deck of cards.

I'm sorry, I missed your defense of Smith's infidelity in that post...

[OtherCheek]

I'm sorry, I missed your defense of Smith's infidelity in that post...

Smith's infidelity? Why should I defend something that wasn't?