Thread: Jesus Christ is inferior to God
June 4th 2010, 12:14 PM #151
Re: Jesus Christ is inferior to God
Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ
"However, I choose to let scripture be the defining factor of what the general sense of the word, god, means. It a general sense it is used of a perceived or real higher authority which falsely or truly deserves homage, worship and service to some degree or another. "
Most usages of the various words used to single out the true God are used of God himself. However, if you look up the word elohim in a concordance, like wise the word theos, you will find passages where elohim is not used of the true God, likewise theos. .
Since God is the author of the scriptures, I trust that He knew exactly what He was doing when He use elohim to describe, Moses, for instance, in his responsibilities, roles, authority, assigned job in relationship to Aaron and Pharaoh.
See II Corinthians 4:4 , for an example of how God uses the word theos to describe Satan in relationship to this world. Is God saying here that Satan is the true God? If God uses the word theos to describe Satan, that is his choice. Who are you or I to dispute him? Of course, when we don't understand, James 1 exhorts us to ask God for wisdom, and that God promises to give liberally, even to the extent that their is no shame involved. Having been a defender of the trinity, I thought I understood scripture, I was impressed by all the scholarly works and history and authority of those who taught it. However, when it came down to it. The clearest scriptures on the subject taught that Jesus Christ is a man, not God. I Timothy 2:5 was the turning point for me. How simple and to the point. Other truths that made it clear is that God is invisible, however, Jesus Christ is not. God is invisible, man is not, man is visible.
It is clear that men make gods of who ever they desire. Money, sex, power, fame, guitar players. God knows this and acknowledges this. Romans 1:22-25.
They are gods, but not the God.
"False gods do have power. Ie, Pharaoh's servants turned their rods into snakes, even as Moses did. "
Simon the sorcerer, in the book of Acts, bewitched the people with displays of power.
Moses was called by the God, to be a god to Pharaoh,
God chose to give Moses this title, not me. Exodus 7:1.
God appointed Moses to act in God's stead in this situation.
Moses was trustworthy.
Other passages refer to humans as god appointed by God to act in his stead.
Even so Jesus Christ. He was the most and the perfectly trustworthy representative of God.
He always did the Father's will, etc.
Since Moses was worthy of respect as a prophet, how much more the prophet, Jesus Christ?
But let's say you are right, that there are other genuine gods besides Jehovah.
I did not say that their are other genuine gods besides the one true God. I cannot even imagine where in my post you ever got that idea. Well, I will endeavor to explain in clearer terms in the future.
Tell me, what exactly does the Bible mean when it calls Jesus God? In what sense is Jesus God to you?
I like your question. I get the impression, that whether you agree or disagree with me, you actually want to know where I am coming from. I appreciate that.
To begin, the word for god, in general, is elohim, and theos. There are many others used in reference to the God, ie, El, Jehovah, etc. But let me focus on these two.
If we look up the passages in the OT, where elohim is used, we find that most usages refer to the true God. However there are some places where elohim is not used of the true God, but regarding men. Exodus 7:1 being one of them.
Exodus 21:6 the judges is elohim
Exodus 22:8-9 likewise judges is elohim
Exodus 22:28 the gods is elohim, in the context, Israel was not to revile or curse those set over them to rule, set over them to rule by God. Moses was set over them to rule by God. Aaron was set to rule over them by God, Saul, David, the prophets in general were set by God to rule over the people.
For me, it is a simple thing to understand that God would call those whom He chooses to rule over His people gods.
Calling them gods would serve two purposes.
It would indicate to the man or woman chosen, the responsibilities and high standards that God expects of those who represent Him. The high standards, of course, being the written word, the logos of God. Ideally, it would also remind those who are chosen to rule of their responsiblity to God. It would ideally remind them of who their position came from.
In like manner, it would give the people a reason to hold them in high regard. Not because the chosen rulers are the God, but because they were chosen by God to serve the people. Today, judges, senators are addressed as your honor, or the honorable. Some are worthy of that description, some are not.
Was Jesus Christ given the responsibility to rule?
In the NT, reference is made to Exodus 22:28 by Paul when he is brought in front of the council. Was Ananias the high priest that was appointed by God? Or is Jesus Christ the high priest appointed by God? See Acts 23:5
John 10:34-35. No doubt, you recognize this reference. Let us ask the question. By whom did the word of God come? Genesis through Deuteronomy came by Moses. And I have heard that Job did also. The word of God in the book Jeremiah came by Jeremiah. The word of God in the book which is called Obadiah came by Obadiah. Likewise Paul's writings. The word of God came from God but it came by Moses, Jeremiah, Obadiah, Paul, etc. How did it come by these people? See II Peter 1:20-21. God is the source, the author, the originator of scripture, of the word of God.
Jesus Christ in quoting OT, says that God calls those by whom the word of God came, gods. Why? because they were chosen by God to represent God and to make known the word and will of God. They were holy men of God, they were trustworthy in God's reckoning.
Did words of God come by Jesus Christ? Jesus Christ stated in various ways that it was God that gave him the words to speak. He also stated that he himself did not judge, but if he did, his judgment was just because the judgment came from God, not himself.
One record that illustrates this is when he drove out the animals of the money changers in the temple. Why? John 2:17. Jesus Christ simply believed the scripture, understood it, and took appropriate action. That is something we need to learn to do.
John 6:35 We are to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ even as the children of Israel in Moses time was to believe those words that God gave to Moses to give to Israel. The close similarities in the ministry of Moses and Jesus Christ is remarkably telling.
God told Moses what to say and do.
God told Jesus what to say and do.
Moses, as a prophet,was one of those by whom the word of God came, he therefore was god to Aaron and to Pharaoh and to the people he was leading. Moses was not perfect, but look what he accomplished even with his shortcomings.
Jesus Christ was one of those by whom the word of God came. He was a prophet, a spokesman for God. He spoke what God told him to speak. The word of God came by Jesus Christ as well. Therefore, he has that title of god, that is, one by whom the word of God came, a prophet, (apostle, evangelist, pastor and teacher as well, see Ephesians 4:11. )
Christ mythist continued -Could Hanina Ben Dosa be the proto type for the miracle working Jesus Christ?By shunyadragon in forum Apologetics 301Replies: 2Last Post: September 21st 2008, 07:02 PM
By Matt the Bat in forum Civics 101Replies: 106Last Post: September 5th 2008, 05:30 PM
The impeccability/temptability of Jesus Christ. Also the righteousness of Jesus Christ. Could Jesus have sinned?By 4given4life in forum Christianity 201Replies: 53Last Post: May 3rd 2007, 12:53 AM
By Krusader in forum JudaismReplies: 81Last Post: April 29th 2006, 03:01 PM
By Magdalenbrother in forum Unorthodox Theology 201Replies: 14Last Post: June 21st 2004, 12:19 AM