Orthodoxy contradicts being saved by faith alone.

[jo7241974]

The Jesus Christ of christianity is the only Christ qualified to save humanity. He has to be fully God - check. Only God is perfect in holiness and righteousness, therefor only God could meet the qualifications of the blameless, spotless Lamb. He has to be fully man - check. He had to be from the line of David and fully man to represent us as the second Adam.

All false forms of christianity fail in at least one or more of those aspects.

You have gone to some passionate effort to generate this post, and I truly appreciate that. However, you have failed to address the OP.

God bless,

jo

[jo7241974]

[LEFT]

I hope not.

mmm. God needs to open our understanding.

Sincerely,
Eric J. Sawyer

Agnostics and atheists generally know who Jesus is. They need to allow God access to their hearts and minds. Most people are not going to have a "road to Damascus" encounter with God. For some reason, they have hardened their hearts. God is standing by and is opening opportunities for us all of the time. We need to crack open the door and let Him in. It is easier for some than it is for others.

God bless,

jo

[wonbyone]

The purpose of this thread is not to discuss the dictionary's definition of the word orthodox. It is to discuss the requirements orthodox Christianity has added to "faith alone" saves us. This thread is to discuss the irony that although orthodox Christianity insists that all that is necessary to be saved is faith, they have added many stipulations to their own claim. Thereby, they have betrayed their claim that all that is required to be saved is faith. In vaious forums here on Tweb, including but not limited to the LDS forum, orthodox Christians will use the claim that only faith is required to be saved, but then go on to argue over every single piece of doctrine which they also claim needs to be correctly interpreted according to THEIR interpretation. Thus, it is obvious that their claim that faith alone saves is NOT what they actually believe or practice.



Doesn't every denomination think that they have the correct interpretation of "doctrine"? The LDS believe that Jesus has restored His Gospel; more importantly, we believe Jesus has restored the keys to His kingdom, i.e., the Holy Priesthood power and authority of God. We do NOT believe we have received all Light or all Truth; Light and Truth can be found everywhere, and we seek after it. HOWEVER, the LDS church should be discussed on the LDS forum.

We are not discussing doctrine on this thread. If you believe that doctrine represents a condition for being saved, you have added requirements to "faith alone" saves. Therefore, you do not believe that faith alone saves.

God bless,

jo

So explain again how defining the God we put our faith in contradicts being saved by faith alone?

[Jedidiah]

Is this what you meant with your question?

Absolutely not! Faith is not really something we exercise, at least not the way you described it. Faith is believing, and what we believe controls what we do. Faith is given by God and when we receive it we are changed. We become, in Biblical parlance, new creations. We don't just act on something, we are changed.

[franktalk]

Absolutely not! Faith is not really something we exercise, at least not the way you described it. Faith is believing, and what we believe controls what we do. Faith is given by God and when we receive it we are changed. We become, in Biblical parlance, new creations. We don't just act on something, we are changed.

No, a thousand times no. We are called by God. Those who answer the calling do so by faith in God. It is freewill which develops faith. What you describe are robots that God plays with. If we have no choice then judgement makes no sense and makes God a fake. God has set the stage for us to come to Him. He does not pull our strings.

God rewards the faithful. Abraham is the root of the tree of faith. In your world anyone could have been Abraham. No, a thousand times no.

[Vivian]

It is much easier to hold to a mental construct about faith that it is to hold to actual faith.

When some define faith as only being valid if the mental construct behind their faith is accurate, I feel the entirety of scripture has been discarded.

For example, let's look at the Gospel of John:

11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

John describes believing in the His Name as receiving Him. And there is much discussion about receiving Christ in John.

If we look to Matthew we also see something curious:

44 “Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Jesus, in his own words, also adds to what it means to receive Him.

And then we have this:

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

There is so much more to faith than developing the right mental construct! For we might think we know Christ, or at least have the right ideas about Christ, but if we do not receive Him, as evidenced by our humble obedience to his call to righteousness, then he will never know us.

Please, do not be fooled by the traditions of men! Which again and again twist and turn the revelations of God making it ok to remain in sin. This is just what the Pharisees did, convincing themselves that outer appearances are everything!

Only those who receive Christ, who know Christ and are known by Him, will find eternal life.

Shalom!

Viv

[Cow Poke]

No. Orthodoxy has added qualifiers to being saved over and above having faith in Jesus and accepting Him as our Savior. The biggest addition to having faith in Jesus and accepting Him as our Savior, is the stipulation that you must accept the trinity as well. According to orthodoxy, If you do not accept the trinity, you are a heretic; you are not a Christian, and you cannot be saved. There are more additions, but that is the biggy.



Hopefully, I have clarified the issue. Let me know, CP.

God bless,

jo

Well, not really.

I asked about Salvation vs. orthodoxy, and you answered with Orthodoxy.
I know it's a fine point, but "capital O" orthodoxy is not the same as "little o" orthodoxy.
And, I still maintain, perhaps not in harmony with my orthodox brethren, that somebody who accepts Jesus Christ as Savior need not understand orthodoxy to be saved.

HOWEVER, I am assuming that they have accepted the "orthodox" Christ.

[barnasha]

Jesus was anti-orthodoxy.

[OtherCheek]

Is there a list somewhere of all the things that must NOT be believed regarding the deity and person of Jesus Christ.

Is there a list somewhere of all the things that must NOT be believed regarding the deity and person of Jesus Christ.

An official list of beliefs about Jesus Christ that disqualify that person from being saved?

[barnasha]

Is there a list somewhere of all the things that must NOT be believed regarding the deity and person of Jesus Christ.

An official list of beliefs about Jesus Christ that disqualify that person from being saved?

Yes. For which organization?

[wonbyone]

Is there a list somewhere of all the things that must NOT be believed regarding the deity and person of Jesus Christ.

An official list of beliefs about Jesus Christ that disqualify that person from being saved?

Oh you mean like believing in a jesus that is satan's spirit brother instead of his creator or a jesus who is actually Michael the archangel?

[headheart]

Jesus was anti-orthodoxy.

Jesus was into Antziology.



Eric J. Sawyer

[OneSizeFit]

From the POV of orthodox Christians, only those Christians who accept "orthodox" beliefs can be saved. They even go so far as to claim that only orthodox Christians can be true Christians. They then present the belief that the Atonement has taken care of your salvation. However, in application, orthodoxy demands more.

Doesn't the existence of "orthodoxy" itself betray their own belief that faith alone saves us?

God bless,

jo

Hmmm, yes, the "correct" doctrine has in essence replaced "works" as a means of "bribing" God to grant you entrance to paradise. I have had similar thoughts. You could even call the creeds and doctrinal requirements of Orthodoxy "intellectual works" having more in common with Greek philosophy than a true religion of the heart. In essence it betrays the concept of God as just and impartial.

It would be nice to save this thread from degrading into another Evangelical vs Mormon slug fest, because Jo has made a very relevant connection.

[jo7241974]

Absolutely not! Faith is not really something we exercise, at least not the way you described it. Faith is believing, and what we believe controls what we do. Faith is given by God and when we receive it we are changed. We become, in Biblical parlance, new creations. We don't just act on something, we are changed.

"Believing" is active faith! Faith is not given to us by God. When we believe, God does not give us faith. Faith and belief go hand-in-hand. It was our choice to decide if we would believe (have faith) in Jesus. Faith is not a reward for believing. It is also NOT faith that changes us. It is the Truth that changes us; the Truth that is witnessed to us by the Holy Spirit!!!! This Truth can continue to change us as long as we remain faithful. Our faith is made stronger by continuing to believe and by making choices which emulate our Savior. Likewsie, we can lose our faith if we make wrong choices after coming to Christ. It all depends on the choices we make; how we use our free will. God does not give us faith as a reward for believing. Nor does He take away our faith as punishment if we stray.

God bless,

jo

[jo7241974]

Hmmm, yes, the "correct" doctrine has in essence replaced "works" as a means of "bribing" God to grant you entrance to paradise. I have had similar thoughts. You could even call the creeds and doctrinal requirements of Orthodoxy "intellectual works" having more in common with Greek philosophy than a true religion of the heart. In essence it betrays the concept of God as just and impartial.

It would be nice to save this thread from degrading into another Evangelical vs Mormon slug fest, because Jo has made a very relevant connection.

Thanks Bro!! I appreciate your support very much. BTW, your comment is spot on!

In essence it betrays the concept of God as just and impartial. Wow!

God bless,

Sis