Difference in being saved vs working out salvation?

[Oliver128]

To get back to my original post in this thread:

I believe that within the pages of the NT/CT there are two different gospels - one is a works-based gospel - the other a grace-based gospel - the ‘true’ gospel is grounded in Grace & Truth.

Joh 1:17 For the Law was given through Moses; Grace & Truth came through Jesus Christ.

Joh 6:29 Jesus answered them, “This is the Work of God, that you Believe in Him whom He has sent.”

These two verses have to do with the Grace-based Gospel – as for the Works-based Gospel I offer:

Jas 2:14 What [is] the advantage, my brothers [and sisters], if someone is saying he has faith but is not having works? Such faith is not able to save him, is it?
Jas 2:24 So you see that a person is justified [or, in right standing with God - saved] by means of works and not by means of faith only.

In verses 2:1 – 13, ‘James’ speaks to the unloving attitude of some to show preference toward the ‘wealthy’ and lack of regard toward the ‘poor’ – this is all well and good teaching. BUT – in 2:14, ‘James’ associates ‘right behavior’ [Works] with ‘Faith’ as co-equal components that result in Salvation. ‘James’ reiterates his stance in 2:24 with the clearly stated formula: ‘Works plus Faith equals Justification [Salvation]’. I posit that ‘James’ is in ERROR in this point; that ‘our’ Salvation is firmly rooted in God’s Grace – His ‘unmerited favor’ toward ‘us’ – that even ‘our’ Righteous Works, done in the Spirit, play not part in achieving ‘our’ Salvation and that IF Works did play a part ‘we’ would have something to boast about – stealing both glory and honor that rightly belongs ONLY to the Almighty God the ONLY worthy One to receive glory and honor.

Rom 11:6 But if it is by Grace, it is no longer on the basis of Works; otherwise Grace would no longer be Grace.

Peace & Love

[Vivian]

Hello Oliver!

I have found that those who know their salvation do so from a position of love and compassion, and thus are not able to enter into a salvation that excludes anyone. And so it is those who are saved join in the Father's Work for the salvation of all.

In other words, how ever one is saved, it is not appear possible to be saved and leave others behind. And so those knowing their salvation join in the work, in this world and on the other side of the grave, to save all.

I have found that those speaking of a personal salvation that excludes others do not really know salvation. Such is just not possible.

Hello Vivian,

Hello Oliver

Sorry Viv, predestination ‘speaks’ ONLY to those who are ‘foreknown’ and ‘called’:

Rom 8:29 For those whom He foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, in order that He might be the firstborn among many brothers.
Rom 8:30 And those whom He predestined He also called, and those whom He called He also justified, and those whom He justified He also glorified.

Your quote from Ephesians fails to note that the letter is addressed to:

‘the saints who are in Ephesus, and the faithful in Christ Jesus’

Who are already:

‘blessed in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places’

And were also:

‘chosen in Him [Christ] before the foundation of the world’

Because:

‘In Love He predestined ‘US’ for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of His will,’

Please note that everything that pertains to ‘US’ is ‘IN’ and ‘THROUGH’ Christ Jesus – our connection to God (the Father) is ‘IN’ and ‘THROUGH’ Christ Jesus and Him alone.

When we do not know salvation, we are limited in our awareness and thus cannot see that all will eventually be saints, as Paul is addressing. All will eventually find their salvation. This is just not obvious for those with a limited awareness (limited to their physical senses).

Jesus says many are called but few are chosen.

And Paul also says that it is the mystery of God's will that ALL that is in heaven and on earth will be made one in Christ. ALL, everything. Those who have found their salvation join in the will of God that ALL will be made one.

If our understanding of scripture is limited to our mental faculties, then things will not always make sense. There will be contradictions. Once we awaken to things Spiritual these contradictions disappear.

In John 17 Jesus is NOT suggesting that ‘WE’ should (or could) become ‘one’ with the Father BUT that ‘WE’ should become ‘one’ with each other IN CHRIST

If our understanding of scripture is purely mental, then that is all we will see. Jesus said may they be one as we are one, Father. And the Father and I are one. How do these fit in your understanding?

– Jesus said ‘no one comes to the Father BUT BY ME - our connection to God (the Father) is ‘IN’, ‘BY’ and ‘THROUGH’ Christ Jesus and Him alone. Only Jesus is ever said to be ‘in the Father’ – ‘WE’ are never said to be ‘in the Father’ – ‘WE’ are always said to be ‘in Christ’ – and it is ONLY through that UNITY (with Christ) that ‘WE’ may approach the Father – until the end of the ‘Ages’.

Those who are one in the Father might put this a bit differently.

If we say that the Father is in Christ, and Christ in us, then the Father is in us as well.

Jesus also says If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.

So – you don’t like ‘welcome’ as a replacement for ‘receive’ – no matter – I don’t like comparing mere sex to the unfathomable richness of fellowship with Christ – the Greek word lambano means: to take – let me ‘take’ you to the typical ‘Christian’ marriage vows where the minister asks ‘do you TAKE’ – this is the exact meaning of this word – to TAKE as one’s own – to TAKE to one’s self – to TAKE exclusive possession – this is the mystery of which Paul was referring – the union of Christ with the Church – NOT SEX.

Peace & Love

I find this an odd interpretation! Do you take is not in the Bible! But it was part of the marriage vows when Paul wrote this? Also interesting is that during these times, a man and woman once 'engaged' often lived as husband and wife (had sex) before the marriage vows were said.

Shalom!

Viv

[Vivian]

To get back to my original post in this thread:



These two verses have to do with the Grace-based Gospel – as for the Works-based Gospel I offer:

Jas 2:14 What [is] the advantage, my brothers [and sisters], if someone is saying he has faith but is not having works? Such faith is not able to save him, is it?
Jas 2:24 So you see that a person is justified [or, in right standing with God - saved] by means of works and not by means of faith only.

In verses 2:1 – 13, ‘James’ speaks to the unloving attitude of some to show preference toward the ‘wealthy’ and lack of regard toward the ‘poor’ – this is all well and good teaching. BUT – in 2:14, ‘James’ associates ‘right behavior’ [Works] with ‘Faith’ as co-equal components that result in Salvation. ‘James’ reiterates his stance in 2:24 with the clearly stated formula: ‘Works plus Faith equals Justification [Salvation]’. I posit that ‘James’ is in ERROR in this point; that ‘our’ Salvation is firmly rooted in God’s Grace – His ‘unmerited favor’ toward ‘us’ – that even ‘our’ Righteous Works, done in the Spirit, play not part in achieving ‘our’ Salvation and that IF Works did play a part ‘we’ would have something to boast about – stealing both glory and honor that rightly belongs ONLY to the Almighty God the ONLY worthy One to receive glory and honor.

Rom 11:6 But if it is by Grace, it is no longer on the basis of Works; otherwise Grace would no longer be Grace.

Peace & Love

Hi Oliver.

I have found that life or salvation is more of a sprouting. The Word is planted in us and if it takes root, gives sprout and grows, first we will see faith, then love, and then works will sprout leading us to life or salvation.

If works do not rise, then either the cycle has not reached maturation, or the initial seed did not take root. Yes, it is Grace that saves us, but if there are no works, then again, either Grace has not taken root, or it has not yet reached maturation.

James is not wrong. Jesus likewise says that we must obey, we must do, we must do the truth, we must 'give food to the hungry and drink to the thirsty'. If such works do not flow from us, if we do not produce good fruit, then we are a bad vine, using Jesus' analogy, and will be dug up and cast into the fire. This is not done in exclusion to our salvation, though. The fires that we will be cast into are purifying fires, so that maybe the next time The Word is planted in us, it will take root, grow and sprout!

One cannot throw out all that Jesus teaches! He is explaining the Gospel, explaining how Grace works, how it will save us.

Shalom!

Viv

[barnasha]

The words "Salvation is by grace" is an empty concept. When I hear this I know that someone is either parroting something they heard before and do not fully understand the concrete meaning, or there must be a clearer way to explain the concept using the english language.

I understand what Paul writes, when i read him, but those who repeat dogma created from his words, I find a lack of clarity in their delivery at times....

And to say James is "wrong" is a bit puzzling to me.

I think this article is pretty good:
http://catholic-resources.org/Bible/Paul-James.htm

[justsumguy]

I have found that those who know their salvation do so from a position of love and compassion, and thus are not able to enter into a salvation that excludes anyone. And so it is those who are saved join in the Father's Work for the salvation of all.

As if anyone is able to enter into this salvation thingy. At least we're able to know our salvation...that's good to see. So what exactly is the Father doing to save the rest?
The love and compassion thing is obviously the reason for God but the reason nobody can be excluded from the salvation I have (from my view) is the simple fact that I can't be in. If I can’t be in and I’m in…then I can’t imagine anyone else not being in. It can’t be any more impossible than me getting in.
Sometimes it comes in handy being a real sinner.

[Vivian]

As if anyone is able to enter into this salvation thingy. At least we're able to know our salvation...that's good to see. So what exactly is the Father doing to save the rest? The love and compassion thing is obviously the reason for God but the reason nobody can be excluded from the salvation I have (from my view) is the simple fact that I can't be in. If I can’t be in and I’m in…then I can’t imagine anyone else not being in. It can’t be any more impossible than me getting in.Sometimes it comes in handy being a real sinner.

Hi justsumguy!

Well said friend..."if I claim I am in, how can I claim anyone else is out."

To claim otherwise, that I fulfill the requirements to enter in, but he or she or they do not, is a prideful ego that is in for a big fall.

Jesus did say that only a few would enter into salvation, that a few would find the door/gate, difficult path, so we ought not be surprised if those few are not known to us in this life.

But there are a few who have found, who know salvation. These are the true Apostles, who still exist in our world, doing all the miracles that Jesus claimed they would do.

And we would be wise to remain open, just in case such a one crosses our path.

May you be abundantly blessed.

Viv

[Oliver128]

Hello Vivian,

I have found that those who know their salvation do so from a position of love and compassion, and thus are not able to enter into a salvation that excludes anyone. And so it is those who are saved join in the Father's Work for the salvation of all.

In other words, how ever one is saved, it is not appear possible to be saved and leave others behind. And so those knowing their salvation join in the work, in this world and on the other side of the grave, to save all.

I have found that those speaking of a personal salvation that excludes others do not really know salvation. Such is just not possible.

2Ti 3:10 You, however, have followed my teaching, my conduct, my aim in life, my faith, my patience, my love, my steadfastness,
2Ti 3:11 my persecutions and sufferings that happened to me at Antioch, at Iconium, and at Lystra--which persecutions I endured; yet from them all the Lord rescued me.
2Ti 3:12 Indeed, all who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted,
2Ti 3:13 while evil people and impostors will go on from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived.
2Ti 3:14 But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it
2Ti 3:15 and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

I cannot ‘find’ the concept of ‘knowing’ salvation anywhere in the ‘sacred writings’ – however – one may have such an acquaintance with (knowledge of) ‘them’ that one will become ‘wise’ unto a salvation that is ‘through faith in Christ Jesus’. In essence, when one is saved one comes to know Jesus in a personal way – this IS a very personal salvation – one which can only be derived from a close, intimate, interpersonal relationship. But let me add that ‘my’ personal relationship with the Only Savior does not preclude, or exclude in any way, ‘your’ personal relationship with Him.

When we do not know salvation, we are limited in our awareness and thus cannot see that all will eventually be saints, as Paul is addressing. All will eventually find their salvation. This is just not obvious for those with a limited awareness (limited to their physical senses).

Jesus says many are called but few are chosen.

And Paul also says that it is the mystery of God's will that ALL that is in heaven and on earth will be made one in Christ. ALL, everything. Those who have found their salvation join in the will of God that ALL will be made one.

Interesting that you would quote Jesus in an attempt to defend ‘universal salvation’ – didn’t Jesus say that in the Last Day the ‘sheep’ will be separated from the ‘goats’ – the ‘sheep’ are to go to Eternal Life and the ‘goats’ to Eternal Punishment. Wasn’t it Jesus who predicted that in the Last Day many would say to Him ‘Lord, Lord, look at all the great and wonderful things WE DID in your Name’ – BUT – He will say to them ‘be gone from Me you WORKERS of iniquity, I NEVER KNEW YOU, go into Eternal Punishment’. Yes, Jesus did say ‘many are called BUT few are chosen’ – that statement is far from being ‘universal’ in scope – Jesus never implied that ‘all will be saved’. Paul is quite clear that, even in his day, there were ‘evil people and impostors’ who were ‘deceiving and being deceived’.

If our understanding of scripture is limited to our mental faculties, then things will not always make sense. There will be contradictions. Once we awaken to things Spiritual these contradictions disappear.

Here we have one of those ‘points’ whereat we both agree – to a point, at least – that being that a ‘Spiritual awakening’ (the new birth from my vantage point) MUST OCCUR before a correct understanding of the ‘sacred writings’ may be garnered – for it is only through the ‘help’ of the Spirit that we are enlightened.

If our understanding of scripture is purely mental, then that is all we will see. Jesus said may they be one as we are one, Father. And the Father and I are one. How do these fit in your understanding?

When Jesus spoke these words He was still in His pre-resurrection state speaking from the vantage point of His human experience – the same vantage point of the pre-resurrection Church. Based on the ‘prologue’ of John, I believe that ‘the Logos’ (Jesus, the Son) came, in human flesh, to demonstrate the close, intimate, interpersonal relationship He had with ‘the God’ (the Father and the Spirit) – as a demonstration of the close, intimate, interpersonal relationship ‘the Church’ could and would have with Him (Jesus).

Those who are one in the Father might put this a bit differently.

If we say that the Father is in Christ, and Christ in us, then the Father is in us as well.

Jesus also says If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.

While it is impossible to truly separate ‘the God’ into ‘parts’ or ‘personalities’ – still Jesus is clear in what He says – I suggest that one should be careful in what one implies – our hope of Glory IS ‘CHRIST IN US’.

I find this an odd interpretation! Do you take is not in the Bible! But it was part of the marriage vows when Paul wrote this? Also interesting is that during these times, a man and woman once 'engaged' often lived as husband and wife (had sex) before the marriage vows were said.

Customs change, this is true, but the ‘meaning’ of the word has not changed – lambano ‘means’ to take to oneself as an exclusive possession, to make ones’ own – when Jesus was described as the Head (the husband) of the Church (the wife) it was in the context of the authority of the husband over the wife and the submission of the wife to the authority of the husband – this is a ‘mystical’ ‘spiritual’ union it is not ‘physical’ or ‘sexual’ in any way – how odd that one who is sooo ‘into’ the ‘spiritual’ and ‘mystical’ should find it necessary to dwell on the ‘physical’ or ‘sexual’ – unless, you are suggesting that you are having physical sex with …

Peace & Love

[barley]

Jo,

I can see that you and I have been reading from scripture and not the doctrines of men on this subject.

My apologies for not getting back to you sooner.

This website is, well, a spiderweb.

As a so called unorthodox Christian, (thank God), there is only one place to post. And usually, once someone "orthodox" discovers that, it is a gang of orthodox thugs that pounce on you.

I find this a very unfriendly neighborhood.

Well, back to your post #4. I read it and am glad that I did.

Salvation, as a gift, is open to anyone who wills to do Romans 10:9-10. Confess with mouth lord Jesus, and believe in heart God raised himself from the dead. God, by means of the works of Jesus Christ, made salvation that simple. I did not say easy, for to believe that God raised someone from the dead and to confess JC as lord may take some deep thought for some.

However, getting born the first time, even as getting born again, is simple. It is almost as if we just came along for the ride.

Learning to live after you are born takes work and instruction and instruction and work. Likewise, learning to live by God's standards after a person is born again. It takes instruction and work to get it right.

Your parents and my parents did not take away our lives from us the first time we filled your diapers, no matter how stinky. They cleaned us up and looked forward to the day that we would be potty trained. Our parents loved us enough to forgive and forget without taking away our lives. God is love, God is light, God would certainly do no less. As matter of fact, would He not even be more loving, gracious and merciful to His own kids. I John 3:1-3. We are sons (and daughters) of God NOW!

I apologize if it seems that I am preaching to the choir. That is not my intent. but you are onto something that I would love to reinforce in you so that it is unshakeable in your mind and heart.

Religious folk like to condemn and teach wrath and unforgiveness and all that diaper filler.

Romans 5:1 and Romans 8:1 tell us different.

Truthful folk will teach Romans 5:1 and Romans 8:1.

The reply to your post 4 is a prime example of the type of religious mockery that goes on around here.

When I am done here, I will go back to #4 and reply to the mocker.

Well, enjoy.

barley

[barley]

It's great to know that I can believe in any jesus I want and still be saved. Which Jesus do you recommend:
1. The jesus that swooned on the cross and was married to mary.
2. The jesus that is satans spirit brother.
3. The jesus that is also micheal the archangel
4. The jesus that was just a man who became indwelt by God.
5. The jesus that CP arrested.

Wonbyone,

What is your point? Don't you know? Romans 10:9-10 is simple and clear. God knows the hearts of people. He made it simple so even you and I could get born again. Have you done Romans 10:9-10?

God raised Jesus Christ from the dead, God did not raise himself from the dead. The trinity is not mentioned in Romans 10:9-10. There is no god/man mentioned in Romans 10:9-10.

There is no mention of accepting Christ as saviour in Romans 10. Accepting Christ as saviour does not get anyone saved. Doing Romans 10:9-10 does. God is eternal, God is spirit. God cannot and does not die. If God died for even one instant, He would not be eternal.

There is no mention of works in Romans 10:9-10, good or otherwise. Salvation is a gift, it is not of works,

Salvation is not of works, but works are of salvation.

Scriptures make very clear the identity of the Jesus whom we must confess as lord and who God is and is not and who JC is and is not.

You will be blessed to know who God is and who the son of God is whom God raised from the dead.

barley

[Oliver128]

Hello Vivian,

I have found that life or salvation is more of a sprouting. The Word is planted in us and if it takes root, gives sprout and grows, first we will see faith, then love, and then works will sprout leading us to life or salvation.

If works do not rise, then either the cycle has not reached maturation, or the initial seed did not take root. Yes, it is Grace that saves us, but if there are no works, then again, either Grace has not taken root, or it has not yet reached maturation.

Rom 11:6 But if it is by Grace, it is no longer on the basis of Works; otherwise Grace would no longer be Grace.

Here we are once again in agreement, works are the result of our having been saved for it is God who is at work within us to will and to work His good pleasure – these works are the result of God working in us and ought to be the evidence to us of our having been saved.

James is not wrong. Jesus likewise says that we must obey, we must do, we must do the truth, we must 'give food to the hungry and drink to the thirsty'. If such works do not flow from us, if we do not produce good fruit, then we are a bad vine, using Jesus' analogy, and will be dug up and cast into the fire. This is not done in exclusion to our salvation, though. The fires that we will be cast into are purifying fires, so that maybe the next time The Word is planted in us, it will take root, grow and sprout!

One cannot throw out all that Jesus teaches! He is explaining the Gospel, explaining how Grace works, how it will save us.

James IS wrong, for these evidences of God working in us are not the means by which we are saved – NO – they are the outcome of our salvation and the very proof of our salvation which is by Grace through Faith IN Christ Jesus.

I do not ‘throw out’ ALL that Jesus is purported to have said – only that which has been misrepresented by the ‘work-mongers’ within the pages of the NT/CT.

Peace & Love

[Oliver128]

Hello barnasha,

The words "Salvation is by grace" is an empty concept. When I hear this I know that someone is either parroting something they heard before and do not fully understand the concrete meaning, or there must be a clearer way to explain the concept using the English language.

I understand what Paul writes, when I read him, but those who repeat dogma created from his words, I find a lack of clarity in their delivery at times....

And to say James is "wrong" is a bit puzzling to me.

Yes, well, if the ‘words’ are empty of meaning then so also will be the concept they describe.

Grace (to me) is God seeing me as worthy of His Love even though I know myself to be completely unworthy. Grace has been ‘defined’ as ‘unmerited favor’ – unmerited suggests that Grace is a free gift and cannot be ‘earned’ – therefore any attempt at working ‘for’ God’s ‘favor’ goes against His graciousness. One of the results of Grace is our ‘justification’ (being placed ‘in good standing’) before God – justification is only one aspect of the salvation that God is ‘working out’ on our behalf.

Rom 11:6 But if it is by Grace, it is no longer on the basis of Works; otherwise Grace would no longer be Grace.

Allow me to re-state this verse – ‘but if salvation is a free gift, it is no longer something that can be earned; otherwise salvation would no longer be a free gift’.

Peace & Love

[Oliver128]

Hello jo7241974,

This is in response to your first post (Post #1) in this thread – in your first paragraph you stipulate that this thread was intended to consider ‘ONLY what is contained in the Bible’ – yet you did not provide ‘verse one’ from that source to bolster even your most basic contention.

I have some 2 dozen electronic versions of the NT/CT and I can find no place where it even suggests that we are to ‘accept Christ as our Savior’ – nor can I find the ‘formula’ that states ‘believe and accept Jesus Christ as you Savior’ – I ‘know’ what you are trying to say (I think) but your phraseology is not contained in the Bible.

John 3:9 Nicodemus said to him, "How can these things be?"
John 3:10 Jesus answered him, "Are you the teacher of Israel and yet you do not understand these things?
John 3:11 Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know, and bear witness to what we have seen, but you do not receive our testimony.
John 3:12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things?
John 3:13 No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.
John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up,
John 3:15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
John 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
John 3:19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil.
John 3:20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed.
John 3:21 But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God."

Therefore, ‘believing’ in the Name of the Son of God is all that is required to enter Eternal Life – but – you seem to be confusing the single requirement to be saved with the multiple evidences of our salvation. If you claim to ‘believe’ in the Name of the Son of God, but can point to no evidence of salvation in your ‘life’, then perhaps you have something to be concerned about – however, this is a ‘judgment call’ that only you can make. In any event, if there is even just a tiny bit of evidence of salvation in you ‘life’ – praise God, and seek the leading of the Spirit that those evidences might increase and thereby ‘conform you into the image of the Son’.

Up until now I have been talking about the Grace-based Gospel that I ‘believe’ to be the only true Gospel. There is a Works-based gospel contained within the NT/CT that the ‘Work-mongers’ will foist upon you. Do not fall for those who ‘deceive and are being deceived’ – those who speak about everything ‘under the sun’ except for the simple truth of the Gospel of Christ Jesus.

‘Man’ in ‘his’ natural state in always concerned about ‘doing’, thus the question “What must I ‘do’ to be saved?” – in Christ the believer need only be concerned with what has already been ‘done’ – on the cross our Lord exclaimed “It is finished!” – those words replaced our ‘doing’ with what He ‘did’.

Peace & Love

[barnasha]

Up until now I have been talking about the Grace-based Gospel that I ‘believe’ to be the only true Gospel. There is a Works-based gospel contained within the NT/CT that the ‘Work-mongers’ will foist upon you. Do not fall for those who ‘deceive and are being deceived’ – those who speak about everything ‘under the sun’ except for the simple truth of the Gospel of Christ Jesus.

so it doesn't matter what you do and how you treat others?

how does one keep the commandments using "grace"?

[Oliver128]

Hello barnasha,

so it doesn't matter what you do and how you treat others?

how does one keep the commandments using "grace"?

I think Romans ch 6 covers this question handily…

Rom 6:19 I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification.

Look – works or right actions or correct behavior are not absent from the ‘life’ of the true believer – it’s just that these deeds do not ‘add to’ or ‘augment’ or ‘improve’ our position of ‘right standing’ before God. They do, however, ‘add to’ and ‘augment’ and ‘improve’ our condition and progress toward being conformed to the image of Christ – they ‘lead’ to our sanctification. Sanctification IS a ‘part’ of our salvation – it is the ‘part’ that leads to our Glorification – it is the ‘process’ that brings us into conformity with Christ.

Rom 10:2 For I bear them witness that they [the Jews] have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge.
Rom 10:3 For, being ignorant of the righteousness of God [in Christ], and seeking to establish their own, they did not submit to God's righteousness [that is Christ].
Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

The question is what ‘commandments’ are you referring to?

1Jn 2:1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
1Jn 2:2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.
1Jn 2:3 And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn 2:4 Whoever says "I know him" but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him,
1Jn 2:5 but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him:
1Jn 2:6 whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.
1Jn 2:7 Beloved, I am writing you no new commandment, but an old commandment that you had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word that you have heard.
1Jn 2:8 At the same time, it is a new commandment that I am writing to you, which is true in him and in you, because the darkness is passing away and the true light is already shining.
1Jn 2:9 Whoever says he is in the light and hates his brother is still in darkness.
1Jn 2:10 Whoever loves his brother abides in the light, and in him there is no cause for stumbling.
1Jn 2:11 But whoever hates his brother is in the darkness and walks in the darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us.
1Jn 3:24 Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God, and God in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us.

1Jn 4:21 And this commandment we have from him: whoever loves God must also love his brother.

Jesus, Paul and John are in agreement that the greatest commandment is to Love God with all our heart, mind and being and to Love our neighbor as ourselves is next to it. Bottom line – if you Love you will fulfill all the Law and the Prophets.

Peace & Love

[Oliver128]

Happy Thanksgiving Day to All - Let us give all praise and thanksgiving to Him who saved us and gave us eternal life.