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An Argument for the True Faith

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  • An Argument for the True Faith

    An argument below is proposed to conclude to the Catholic faith as the one true faith. The argument begins by establishing the truth of monotheism, then moves to the nature of religion, and then to the truth of Christianity, then to the truth of the Catholic faith. The argument only proposes the bare bones of the truth of each step. The argument then proceeds to show the logic of the Catholic position.

    God either exists or not.
    If God does not exist, then atheism is true.
    But atheism is false, for God is the necessary being, without which no thing can exist.
    Hence theism is true for atheism is false and theism is true of itself.
    For God is the necessary being and a denial of which leads to absurdity.

    Hence because theism is true, then either monotheism or polytheism is true.
    If polytheism is true, then many necessary beings exist.
    Yet the only necessary being is pure act which is one.
    Hence polytheism is false.

    If monotheism is true, then there is only one God.
    As God is the necessary being, which is being by nature,
    then from the nature of being as only one, there is only one necessary being.
    Monotheism is true, then there is only one God.

    As monotheism is true, then the one God is all powerful.
    For being without limit is being with all perfect without limit.
    Power then is a perfection, when in God, without limit.
    Hence the one God controls all things.
    But to control all things means to control world history.
    Hence the one God controls world history.

    If then the one God has revealed some truths to men, then those truths must be contained within history.
    The divine truths contained within history must be lived out by the believers in history.
    But to live out truths revealed by God is to live in accord with human nature with respect to God.
    To live a human life with respect to God is to regulate human life in accord with 1) knowledge of divine truths, and 2) to direct men towards God through free moral action as regulated by natural moral law and divine positive law.

    Therefore to regulate human life with regard to divinely revealed truths is to 1) propose truths of faith as a form of knowledge 2) propose laws to regulate human behaviour, and 3) propose worship of the one true God through which men can give glory to God.
    Therefore to account for the nature of man in respect to God, the true religion must contain a creed, code and cult.
    The creed is an expression of the truths revealed by God.
    The code is an expression of the law whereby men are to obey and attain the ultimate end.
    The cult is the institution by which men are to worship God.

    The one true faith will be revealed by God.
    Hence God will provide evidence that He has revealed truths to men, through truth and power.
    God has provide evidence that He has revealed truths to men, through truth and power through the revelations received by the Patriarchs, Israel and finally through Jesus Christ.
    For Christ as the seal of the prophets both claimed and proved that He was God through His perfect life, His perfect teaching, His fulfillment of prophesy and performance of miracles, such as His own resurrection.
    As Christ was God, then His religion is the true faith.
    Yet the religion of Christianity is divided into many denominations.
    But as truth is one, then only one form of Christianity alone can possibly from Christ.
    That form of Christianity must have a unity of doctrine, a creed, a law of conduct from Christ and a form of worship from Christ.
    That form of Christianity must also have a strong witness throughout church history, for Christ as God controls Church history.

    When Church history is examined there is a strong universal witness to the creeds, law and worship of the Catholic Church, with its apostolic succession, creeds of faith, church laws, and Eucharistic worship.
    No other form of Christianity can produce the evidence from church history for the divine establishment and divine protection granted to the Catholic church.
    For no other form of Christianity can both 1) trace its origin back to Christ, and 2) show a strong witness in history to the practice of faith throughout all of church history.
    Hence the Catholic faith, based upon the work of Christ, with the bishops and Popes in Rome is the one true faith given by God to men.


    Objection 1 - the doctrinal content of the Catholic faith is rejected by Protestants. Hence the Catholic faith cannot claim with certitude that the Catholic faith is the one true faith, for the Catholic faith does not have true doctrine.

    Answer - The Catholic faith alone has a strong witness in church history. Hence only the Catholic faith can be considered as the true faith. If the Catholic faith is shown to have one or more doctrinal errors, then the Catholic faith is false, along with all other Christian denominations. But then, it has never been shown that the Catholic faith has errors, regardless of the claims of its opponents.

    Objection 2 - The historical witness to the Catholic faith is not uniform. For there is witness to the presence of Orthodoxy, with its claims to apostolic succession.

    Answer - The historical evidence for Orthodoxy is not evident until after the schism in 1054 AD. Hence the Orthodox cannot make any historical claim to their own particular ecclesiologies, or doctrines (contraception, divorce and remarriage) prior to the schism of 1054 AD. Hence the history of orthodoxy is without historical basis before 1054 AD. Hence only the Catholic faith which has historical witness from the apostles is the one true faith.

    I realise the above argument is incomplete, due to the inability to demonstrate the truths of the Catholic faith as many Catholic apologists have done in the past. Yet the above argument does provide some indication of where a truth seeker may tend toward to find the true faith.

    JM

  • #2
    Originally posted by JohnMartin View Post
    God either exists or not.
    If God does not exist, then atheism is true.
    Error.

    Atheism also includes that other gods than yours also do not exist.

    Atheism could be false even though your god does not exist.

    Rest deleted.
    Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

    MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
    MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

    seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Roy View Post
      Error.

      Atheism also includes that other gods than yours also do not exist.

      Atheism could be false even though your god does not exist.

      Rest deleted.
      Error.

      There is really only one possibility that atheism is true and that is if monotheism if false. For all other forms of theism are proven to be false from deductive reasoning. Hence atheism in relation to those false theisms, may be understood to be true. As monotheism alone is true, atheism is then only true if monotheism is false. The implication in your assertion that other forms of theism may be true is false.

      You said atheism could be false even though your god does not exist, which implies one or more forms of theism other than monotheism may be true, and atheism false, when in fact no form of theism other than monotheism can be true. Therefore if God does not exist, then atheism is true, is without error.

      Even if we ignore the problem with the above implication, the statement that if God does not exist, then atheism is true, may be understood to include every form of theism is false then atheism is true. I only then have to show that one form of theism is true to show atheism is false. This proof of monotheism has already been done multiple times on another thread.

      JM

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by JohnMartin View Post
        If God does not exist, then atheism is true.
        Error.

        Atheism also includes that other gods than yours also do not exist.

        Atheism could be false even though your god does not exist.

        Rest deleted.
        Error.

        There is really only one possibility that atheism is true and that is if monotheism if false.
        Monotheism being false is a necessary but insufficient condition for atheism being true. That you personally reject pantheism and polytheism is does not make your above claim correct.

        If your god exists, then atheism is false.
        If your god does not exist than atheism may be true - or may not.

        Your argument fails because it includes a fallacy of the inverse.

        I predict you won't understand this, so will be unable to correct the problem, and hence anything else you write in this thread will be pointless.
        Last edited by Roy; 03-13-2017, 07:02 AM.
        Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

        MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
        MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

        seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

        Comment


        • #5
          God is the necessary being, without which no thing can exist.
          Unsupported
          If polytheism is true, then many necessary beings exist.
          Not true; this assumes that any god must be a necessary being, which is not a claim of polytheism.
          For Christ as the seal of the prophets both claimed and proved that He was God through His perfect life, His perfect teaching, His fulfillment of prophesy and performance of miracles, such as His own resurrection.
          Were his teaching perfect? Have you given up all your material goods and now rely on God to provide for you, as Jesus did, as his disciples did, and as Jesus taught? How does that work out for you?

          The messiah was prophesised to lead the Jews to greatness. Jesus never did that. Most of the prophecies Jesus did supposedly fulfill have been twisted by Christians (the virgin birth being an excellent example).

          The evidence for the resurrection is very weak, and we have no eye witness accounts. The accounts we do have show signs of embellishments.
          My Blog: http://oncreationism.blogspot.co.uk/

          Comment


          • #6
            JM,

            Do you know with absolute certainty?

            Do you now possess eternal life and know it?

            If you were to explain how to know for sure to possess eternal life, what could you explain so another could too?
            . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

            . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

            Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

            Comment


            • #7
              JM, most of your logical proof is nothing but assertions with no logical necessity. Just listing what you want to be true by prefacing it with "therefore" does not make it logically true.

              therefore, your entire OP is useless nonsense.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by JohnMartin View Post
                Hence because theism is true, then either monotheism or polytheism is true.
                If polytheism is true, then many necessary beings exist.
                Yet the only necessary being is pure act which is one.
                Hence polytheism is false.
                You know, I'm pretty sure you just smashed into a brick wall called Hinduism. From my understanding, Hinduism doesn't propose that many gods are necessary.

                In fact, I can't think of a polytheistic religion that actually requires multiple gods to keep existing. In some cases, you could even kill off the lot of them.
                Middle-of-the-road swing voter. Feel free to sway my opinion.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Yttrium View Post
                  You know, I'm pretty sure you just smashed into a brick wall called Hinduism. From my understanding, Hinduism doesn't propose that many gods are necessary.

                  In fact, I can't think of a polytheistic religion that actually requires multiple gods to keep existing. In some cases, you could even kill off the lot of them.
                  I'm a case-in-point for that. I am a practitioner of Forn Siðr, a typically polytheistic religion, while also maintaining that I am an atheist.
                  "[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
                  --Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View Post
                    I'm a case-in-point for that. I am a practitioner of Forn Siðr...
                    Do you guys have orgies and free German beer? Might be worth looking into...
                    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by JohnMartin View Post
                      Hence the one God controls all things.
                      But to control all things means to control world history.
                      Hence the one God controls world history.
                      That argument by extension implies that God also directly controls all actions of humans. Consequently, we would have no free will at all.

                      If God allows free will and does not directly control all humans all of the time, then God also need not directly control all of world history.
                      Last edited by Yttrium; 03-13-2017, 02:00 PM.
                      Middle-of-the-road swing voter. Feel free to sway my opinion.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by seer View Post
                        Do you guys have orgies and free German beer? Might be worth looking into...
                        No orgies, but we most certainly drink a good bit as a part of our rituals. Hard to find a sumbel or a blot without booze-- though I'm told they do occur.
                        "[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
                        --Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Roy View Post
                          Monotheism being false is a necessary but insufficient condition for atheism being true. That you personally reject pantheism and polytheism is does not make your above claim correct.

                          If your god exists, then atheism is false.
                          If your god does not exist than atheism may be true - or may not.

                          Your argument fails because it includes a fallacy of the inverse.

                          I predict you won't understand this, so will be unable to correct the problem, and hence anything else you write in this thread will be pointless.
                          It's only apparently the fallacy of the inverse, but not so. All forms of theism that are not monotheism are known to be false by the author, for only monotheism is true. So atheism may be considered as true in relation to all other forms of theism other than monotheism. Hence if monotheism is false then atheism is true. There is really only one contender. If all theism's other than monotheism are false, then atheism can only be true if monotheism is also false.

                          You also commit the fallacy of the non sequitur where you say -

                          I predict you won't understand this, so will be unable to correct the problem, and hence anything else you write in this thread will be pointless.
                          I predict you will deny this fallacy, even though it is obvious that you have done just that - commit the fallacy of the non sequitur.

                          JM

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                            JM, most of your logical proof is nothing but assertions with no logical necessity. Just listing what you want to be true by prefacing it with "therefore" does not make it logically true.

                            therefore, your entire OP is useless nonsense.
                            Expose two such examples and let me defend.

                            JM

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                              JM,

                              Do you know with absolute certainty?

                              Do you now possess eternal life and know it?

                              If you were to explain how to know for sure to possess eternal life, what could you explain so another could too?
                              Stock standard Reformed rhetoric that is based upon the Lutheran myth (or some such similar myth) and its attached false doctrines of justification by faith alone.

                              JM

                              Comment

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