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Thread: If Protestantism is true then . . .

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    Quote Originally Posted by 37818 View Post
    The genuine church of the Lord Jesus Christ is the one He is building (Matthew 16:18).

    The Apostle Peter regarding the "more sure word of prophecy" wrote, ". . . Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. . . ." v.20 -- 2 Peter 1:19-21.

    The apostolic authority resides in the Holy Scripture not in the interpretation nor succession of men.
    There is strong biblical basis for the binding nature of oral tradition -

    Biblical Evidence for Apostolic Oral Tradition

    Matthew 13:19 When any one hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what is sown in his heart; this is what was sown along the path.

    Matthew 13:20 As for what was sown on rocky ground, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; (other instances of “the word”: Matt 13:21-23; Mk 2:2; 4:14-20,33; Lk 1:2; 8:12-13,15; Jn 1:1,14 [of Jesus]; Jn 14:24; Acts 6:4; 8:4; 11:19; 14:25; 16:6; Gal 6:6; Eph 5:26; Col 4:3; 1 Pet 3:1)

    Luke 5:1 While the people pressed upon him to hear the word of God, he was standing by the lake of Gennes’aret. (other instances of “word of God”: Lk 3:2; 8:11,21; Acts 6:2; 13:5,7,44,48; 17:13; 18:11; Rom 9:6; 1 Cor 14:36; Eph 6:17; Phil 1:14; Col 1:25; 1 Tim 4:5; 2 Tim 2:9; Titus 2:5; Heb 6:5; 13:7; 1 Jn 2:14; Rev 1:9; 20:4)
    There is also evidence for the binding authority of the church in Acts 15, and Matt 16, and 18.

    JM

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    Quote Originally Posted by Meh Gerbil View Post
    I want to take one point to illustrate the absurdity of this post.
    I find similar problems with all 14 points.



    1: I'm not aware of any Protestant who believes in this definition of individual interpretation. The fact is every Protestant minister under which I've sat has made extensive use of the opinions/writings of those that have gone before - often citing Catholics and the early church fathers and their views when addressing a particular passage of Scripture. They might deny it but they're staunch traditionalists.

    2: I'm not aware of any Protestant who wouldn't at least invoke the Holy Spirit as a guide when interpreting Scripture. I'm sure they exist but they'd be the exception to the rule.

    Your straw man is ridiculous.
    Some of your points are so off the reservation as to be unintelligible.
    At least understand something before you critic it.
    Bottom line is the minister only arrives at his own private interpretation of texts, and nowhere in the texts, does the text teach private interpretation of the text as the means to derive doctrine. The text does contain content concerning a teaching church in Acts 15 and the binding nature of oral tradition in several other passages. The many Protestant notions of private interpretation are all unbiblical and unhistorical.

    JM

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    JM, did you recently discover logical arguments? Because you really suck at it.

    You just make a bunch of straw man arguments and stick numbers in front of them and call it logic.
    Demonstrate your claim with two examples, showing the errors in each.

    JM

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    Also you are doing exactly what we told you over and over not to do: Post a thread with way too many points in one post to debate.
    Lets debate any single point you want. I prefer point 4 -

    4) Church history is irrelevant to revealed truth. For the history of the church is Catholic, containing much evidence for Catholic doctrine and practice. Yet the reformers rejected church history, or only selectively embraced church history and invented many novel doctrines, such as 50 Heterodox Beliefs of Luther in 1520. Yet Christ is God and therefore must control church history, contrary to the illogical rejection of the Protestant reformers.
    JM

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    tWebber Ana Dragule's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obsidian View Post
    The Roman Catholic Church is a joke now. I wouldn't be surprised if it were outright disbanded within the next 50 years. They hardly even pretend to be Christian anymore.
    The Orthodox church is here when you are ready. Here doors are always open.
    I am become death...

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    tWebber Meh Gerbil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnMartin View Post
    Bottom line is the minister only arrives at his own private interpretation of texts, and nowhere in the texts, does the text teach private interpretation of the text as the means to derive doctrine. The text does contain content concerning a teaching church in Acts 15 and the binding nature of oral tradition in several other passages. The many Protestant notions of private interpretation are all unbiblical and unhistorical.

    JM
    I just stated two reasons why this isn't the case:
    1: Protestant ministers rely upon commentaries, each other, tradition and so forth when interpreting Scripture.
    2: Your approach completely ignores the role of the Holy Spirit.

    Your definition of private interpretation is not something I've seen in practice anywhere inside of mainstream Protestantism.
    Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101

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    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Does John ask his priest for the interpretation of every verse he reads? Or does he just interpret it himself?

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    tWebber Meh Gerbil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ana Dragule View Post
    The Orthodox church is here when you are ready. Here doors are always open.
    I showed up at 5:00AM this morning and the doors were locked.
    Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101

  9. Amen Darth Executor amen'd this post.
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    tWebber Thoughtful Monk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obsidian View Post
    The Roman Catholic Church is a joke now. I wouldn't be surprised if it were outright disbanded within the next 50 years. They hardly even pretend to be Christian anymore.

    https://www.ncronline.org/news/vatic...inalizing-them
    I don't think so. I'm no fan of the RCC but I know enough of its history to know it has survived poor Popes in the past and will survive this one.
    "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

    My time to be on TWeb is unpredictable. It may take a few days for me to see your post and respond.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Meh Gerbil View Post
    I just stated two reasons why this isn't the case:
    1: Protestant ministers rely upon commentaries, each other, tradition and so forth when interpreting Scripture.
    2: Your approach completely ignores the role of the Holy Spirit.

    Your definition of private interpretation is not something I've seen in practice anywhere inside of mainstream Protestantism.
    The method you espouse is not in the bible, or is only based upon the private interpretation of some texts by believers. There is no guarantee given to an individual believer that the Holy Spirit will assist the believer in correctly understanding any individual text. There is no instruction in the bible to consult sources other than the bible. And there is no instruction in the bible that the believer must, or can only come to know Christian doctrine through reading, or studying the bible.

    There is plenty of evidence in the bible and church history that Christians are to consult the Visible, Hierarchical, Apostolic Church for Christian doctrine.

    There is also strong evidence that the method you claim is used within mainstream Protestantism is unworkable anyway, simply because mainstream Protestantism is full of doctrinal contradictions. So the Holy Spirit, is definitely not a guarantee that the believer will not come to one or many errors.

    Also the method that claims to consult tradition, is a failure, for church history is Catholic and contains much Catholic doctrine. Most of which must be ignored by the Protestant to come to the conclusion that Christian doctrine is not Catholic.

    Consulting each other will inevitably only lead to denominationalism, or doctrinal indifference.

    The so called method used by mainstream Protestantism is really only an artificial construct invented by the Reformers who had to have a new method as an alternative to the Catholic hierarchy, with its doctrines propounded through councils.

    The method is a failure for many reasons.

    JM

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