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Thread: If Protestantism is true then . . .

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    Does John ask his priest for the interpretation of every verse he reads? Or does he just interpret it himself?
    John regularly consults Church documents such as the catechism to learn catholic doctrine, which is certain, for it has its source in the one true church instituted by Christ.

    JM

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    tWebber Obsidian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thoughtful Monk
    I don't think so. I'm no fan of the RCC but I know enough of its history to know it has survived poor Popes in the past and will survive this one.
    The most basic idea behind the Catholic Church is supposed to be that the Pope is infallible. Otherwise, there would be no reason for uniting behind him, and hence no unified "church."

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    tWebber Thoughtful Monk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obsidian View Post
    The most basic idea behind the Catholic Church is supposed to be that the Pope is infallible. Otherwise, there would be no reason for uniting behind him, and hence no unified "church."
    Speaking as a non-RCC, I think you're slightly incorrect. I think their basic idea is the claim of papal succession from Peter to the current pope. They are the true church because Christ founded them.

    I think non-RCC make a bigger deal of papal infallibility than there is. On the other hand being non-RCC, I could be wrong.
    "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

    My time to be on TWeb is unpredictable. It may take a few days for me to see your post and respond.

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    tWebber Obsidian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thoughtful Monk
    Speaking as a non-RCC, I think you're slightly incorrect. I think their basic idea is the claim of papal succession from Peter to the current pope.
    Which is why, supposedly, the Pope is infallible. If the Pope is an idiot and a false prophet, like I think he is, then the whole system breaks down and you may as well just read your Bible and go to a Baptist church.

  5. #25
    tWebber 37818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnMartin View Post
    There is strong biblical basis for the binding nature of oral tradition -
    Oral tradition is reason NOT to believe any of it. It is the word of fallible men and not the word of God.


    There is also evidence for the binding authority of the church in Acts 15, and Matt 16, and 18.

    JM
    You might explain what you mean in each reference. I have no disagreement with the holy scriptures. But I disagree with the false claims of oral tradition.
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

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    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnMartin View Post
    John regularly consults Church documents such as the catechism to learn catholic doctrine, which is certain, for it has its source in the one true church instituted by Christ.

    JM
    You didn't answer my question. I have seen plenty of threads here on tweb where you are debating scripture. Do you check with the pope every time to make sure you are interpreting those scriptures in the proper way? If so, from now on I would like you to provide a link to the official Catholic churches interpretation of every verse you reference or discuss.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    You didn't answer my question. I have seen plenty of threads here on tweb where you are debating scripture. Do you check with the pope every time to make sure you are interpreting those scriptures in the proper way? If so, from now on I would like you to provide a link to the official Catholic churches interpretation of every verse you reference or discuss.
    RRC doctrine is protected from error by the Holy Spirit. Such doctrine is an assistance in understanding the scriptures. The magisterium of the RCC has never taught that it has interpreted every verse of scripture. It has taught that its doctrines are binding on the faithful. Your request is your own invention based upon a false understanding of what the magisterium of the RCC does.

    Even if the magisterium has given one or some meanings of a text to expound a doctrine, the magisterium has not ever taught that such an understanding of the text is exhaustive. The Catholic is permitted to use scripture in a manner that does not contradict doctrine. Hence the Catholic need not cite magisterium documents every time scripture is cited, or used.

    JM

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    Quote Originally Posted by 37818 View Post
    Oral tradition is reason NOT to believe any of it. It is the word of fallible men and not the word of God.
    Oral tradition is the word of the Lord and hence inspired by the Holy Spirit.

    1 Peter 1:25 . . .but the word of the Lord endures forever." And this is the word that was preached to you.

    You might explain what you mean in each reference. I have no disagreement with the holy scriptures. But I disagree with the false claims of oral tradition.
    Acts 15, and Matt 16, and 18 are passages where Jesus gves the apostles the power to bind and loose. Acts 15 is a historical record of how that power was used by the early church. The church was granted the power to bind and loose and acted to loose the church from men having to receive circumcision along with baptism. The same principle applies in church history whereby the church acted to bind the faithful to many doctrines and practices for the sake of the faithful.

    JM

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    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnMartin View Post
    RRC doctrine is protected from error by the Holy Spirit. Such doctrine is an assistance in understanding the scriptures. The magisterium of the RCC has never taught that it has interpreted every verse of scripture. It has taught that its doctrines are binding on the faithful. Your request is your own invention based upon a false understanding of what the magisterium of the RCC does.

    Even if the magisterium has given one or some meanings of a text to expound a doctrine, the magisterium has not ever taught that such an understanding of the text is exhaustive. The Catholic is permitted to use scripture in a manner that does not contradict doctrine. Hence the Catholic need not cite magisterium documents every time scripture is cited, or used.

    JM
    So your answer is no, you don't check with the catholic church before interpreting scripture. You do the exact same thing that protestants do, you interpret scripture yourself.

    So your point of argument is wrong.

    You logic fails.

  10. Amen Obsidian, Christianbookworm amen'd this post.
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    tWebber tabibito's Avatar
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    "No prophecy of scripture is a matter of private interpretation"
    Even if the translation were correct.
    The idea that the passage says "no scripture is a matter of private interpretation" would be a misinterpretation.
    και εκζητησατε με και ευρησετε με οτι ζητησετε με εν ολη καρδία υμων

  12. Amen Adrift amen'd this post.

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