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Apologetics 301 Guidelines

If you think this is the area where you tell everyone you are sorry for eating their lunch out of the fridge, it probably isn't the place for you


This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.


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  • Originally posted by Sparko View Post

    Once again you prove my statement that you are close-minded and will not accept any evidence because you don't believe there can be any because God doesn't exist.
    As far as I'm concerned there is no logically coherent alternative to materialism. If you want to counter this with a god hypothesis and submit evidence for such a hypothesis (and how it can be falsified), then please do so. But, the burden of proof is on you to support your argument, it's not for me to come up with a fanciful scenario to support the existence of an imaginary deity.

    Originally posted by Roy View Post
    Yeah, I know. I'm not defending Tassman.
    Well you were "defending Tassman" actually. Your statement: "but we do expect the proposers to (I) provide evidence for them, and (ii) consider ways in which they might be disproven" is precisely the point I'm making.
    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
      As far as I'm concerned there is no logically coherent alternative to materialism. If you want to counter this with a god hypothesis and submit evidence for such a hypothesis (and how it can be falsified), then please do so. But, the burden of proof is on you to support your argument, it's not for me to come up with a fanciful scenario to support the existence of an imaginary deity.
      If nothing will convince you then trying to convince you is a waste of time. You are close-minded and are set in your beliefs. A true fundy atheist.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
        If nothing will convince you then trying to convince you is a waste of time. You are close-minded and are set in your beliefs. A true fundy atheist.
        I didn't say "nothing" will convince me. I said that the burden of proof is on you to present an argument; it's not for me to come up with a scenario to support your beliefs in a deity.
        “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
          I didn't say "nothing" will convince me. I said that the burden of proof is on you to present an argument; it's not for me to come up with a scenario to support your beliefs in a deity.
          you cant even come up with an example of what would convince you and you said a direct contact with God would not convince you. that means that nothing would convince you, Tassy. You can't have it both ways: demanding empirical evidence and rejecting all evidence at the same time. I have asked you what type of empirical evidence you would accept and you can't give even a hypothetical answer. Because you know you would find a way to reject all evidence.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by 37818 View Post
            Yes. As a possibility the odds are they can all be false. But the question for you to answer then, why so many competing claims for Christianity?

            Interestingly, all of them make some kind of claims regarding the 66 books of what is called the Bible. (Some more books too.)
            Presumably, all the Christian denominations (branches) have a common root. If the root is false, as it is, the chance of any branch being true is very remote.

            The fragmentation of Christian faiths (due to contradictions) indicates the falsity of the basic premise. Truth never contradicts itself.
            “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
            “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
            “not all there” - you know who you are

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
              you cant even come up with an example of what would convince you and you said a direct contact with God would not convince you. that means that nothing would convince you, Tassy. You can't have it both ways: demanding empirical evidence and rejecting all evidence at the same time. I have asked you what type of empirical evidence you would accept and you can't give even a hypothetical answer. Because you know you would find a way to reject all evidence.
              The burden of proof is on you to support your irrational belief in immaterial entities; it's not for me to come up with a scenario. I think it's delusional nonsense...you might just as well ask for examples of what would convince me of the Blue Fairy's existence. Again, my stated position is that there is no logically coherent alternative to materialism; I have yet to see evidence to convince me otherwise.
              “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                Well you were "defending Tassman" actually. Your statement: "but we do expect the proposers to (I) provide evidence for them, and (ii) consider ways in which they might be disproven" is precisely the point I'm making.
                No, I wasn't. I was objecting to Yttrium's claim re expectations of the proposers of scientific hypotheses.

                AFAICT your claim is not that god-proponents need to provide evidence and routes to disproof, but that you don't need to help them - not even to the extent of discussing acceptable classes of evidence. I disagree.
                Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                  The burden of proof is on you to support your irrational belief in immaterial entities; it's not for me to come up with a scenario. I think it's delusional nonsense...you might just as well ask for examples of what would convince me of the Blue Fairy's existence. Again, my stated position is that there is no logically coherent alternative to materialism; I have yet to see evidence to convince me otherwise.
                  You are close-minded. A fundy atheist.


                  If a little blue fairy appeared to me and said, "Hi I am a blue fairy." I would talk to her, ask her some questions, maybe have her turn a pumpkin into a carriage for me, ask her to introduce me to her friends. And then I would believe in blue fairies.

                  See? it's easy.

                  If you truly are open to believing that God could exist, you would be able to come up with a hypothetical standard of evidence that you would accept and would convince you of his existence. The fact that you refuse to even consider the possibility that God can exist means you will not accept any evidence I or anyone (including God himself) can provide.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Roy View Post
                    "If". There is no reason to make that association other than that it allows you to skip over the hole in your apologetics.You can't even follow your own argument - you missed out the 'uncaused'. Which of the multiple fallacies you perpetrated are you asking about?
                    Well. Give each specific example from my posts and give the fallacy name that applies.
                    . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                      Well. Give each specific example from my posts and give the fallacy name that applies.
                      Give me a reason why it wouldn't be a waste of my time.
                      Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                      MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                      MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                      seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                        The universe is defined as everything that exists; this is all that need be said.
                        So you think? Would not then the universe consist of both its uncaused existence and all caused existences?
                        . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                        . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                        Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Roy View Post
                          Give me a reason why it wouldn't be a waste of my time.
                          If you think it is a waste of time to prove your point. Don't bother. What does it matter if there are others, besides myself, who think your claims are nothing more than empty rhetoric.
                          Last edited by 37818; 04-24-2017, 02:07 PM.
                          . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                          . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                          Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                            So you think? Would not then the universe consist of both its uncaused existence and all caused existences?
                            The universe just 'IS', this is all one can say with certainty. Unlike you, I'm not looking for reasons to believe in a deity.
                            “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                              If you think it is a waste of time to prove your point. Don't bother. What does it matter if there are others, besides myself, who think your claims are nothing more than empty rhetoric.
                              Then I'll wait for them to request clarification.
                              Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                              MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                              MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                              seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                              Comment


                              • Hey Tassy, If God came to you and brought back to life someone you know who was dead, would you believe in him then?

                                Comment

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