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If you think this is the area where you tell everyone you are sorry for eating their lunch out of the fridge, it probably isn't the place for you


This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.


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  • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
    OK give me an example, something that even Tassman would accept and not explain away as an unknown natural phenomenon.
    That's quite a challenge. I can certainly provide examples I would accept - such as the Empire state building being converted floor-by-floor to high-tensile yellow gingerbread while occupied by thousands of people during a CNN live broadcast - but I couldn't guantee that Tassman would accept them.
    Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

    MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
    MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

    seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Roy View Post
      That's quite a challenge. I can certainly provide examples I would accept - such as the Empire state building being converted floor-by-floor to high-tensile yellow gingerbread while occupied by thousands of people during a CNN live broadcast - but I couldn't guantee that Tassman would accept them.
      How would you know that it was a supernatural occurrence and not the result of particularly intelligent aliens messing with your mind?
      “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Roy View Post
        That's quite a challenge. I can certainly provide examples I would accept - such as the Empire state building being converted floor-by-floor to high-tensile yellow gingerbread while occupied by thousands of people during a CNN live broadcast - but I couldn't guantee that Tassman would accept them.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
          How would you know that it was a supernatural occurrence and not the result of particularly intelligent aliens messing with your mind?
          The Keebler elves did it.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
            How would you know that it was a supernatural occurrence and not the result of particularly intelligent aliens messing with your mind?
            And you know for sure your mind is not being missed with (2 Corinthians 4:3-4).
            . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

            . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

            Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

            Comment


            • Originally posted by 37818 View Post
              And you know for sure your mind is not being messed with (2 Corinthians 4:3-4).
              I'm pretty sure that your mind is being messed with, given that you keep quoting folk-lore as authoritative.
              “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                I'm pretty sure that your mind is being messed with, given that you keep quoting folk-lore as authoritative.
                Cite the folklore you mean.
                . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                Comment


                • Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                  Cite the folklore you mean.
                  Come now, I'm pretty sure you know what I mean.
                  “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                    Come now, I'm pretty sure you know what I mean.
                    No. What oral tradition are you referring to? Be specific.
                    . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                      No. What oral tradition are you referring to? Be specific.
                      “Folklore” is defined as the traditional beliefs, legends, customs, etc., of a people; and this better applies to the NT than regarding it as reliable history...let alone inspired by God. “Evidence for Jesus is weaker than you might think. The more sophisticated antiquities scholarship becomes, the more it becomes clear that the origins of Christianity are controversial, convoluted, and not very coherent. “

                      http://www.rawstory.com/2017/04/evid...u-might-think/
                      “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                        “Folklore” is defined as the traditional beliefs, legends, customs, etc., of a people; and this better applies to the NT than regarding it as reliable history...let alone inspired by God. “Evidence for Jesus is weaker than you might think. The more sophisticated antiquities scholarship becomes, the more it becomes clear that the origins of Christianity are controversial, convoluted, and not very coherent. “

                        http://www.rawstory.com/2017/04/evid...u-might-think/
                        A tired rehash of rehashed claims, some of which have been refuted - others being simply a matter of jaundiced readings.
                        1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                        .
                        ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                        Scripture before Tradition:
                        but that won't prevent others from
                        taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                        of the right to call yourself Christian.

                        ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                          “Folklore” is defined as the traditional beliefs, legends, customs, etc., of a people; and this better applies to the NT than regarding it as reliable history...let alone inspired by God. “Evidence for Jesus is weaker than you might think. The more sophisticated antiquities scholarship becomes, the more it becomes clear that the origins of Christianity are controversial, convoluted, and not very coherent. “

                          http://www.rawstory.com/2017/04/evid...u-might-think/
                          Folklore is oral transmission of a story. Once something is written down, it is no longer oral. What proof do you have what was written in the accounts was nothing more than folklore before being written down?
                          . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                          . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                          Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                            Folklore is oral transmission of a story. Once something is written down, it is no longer oral. What proof do you have what was written in the accounts was nothing more than folklore before being written down?
                            The Jesus story was not written down until 40 to 80+ years after the "wondrous events" by non eyewitnesses in a credulous age. There is no good reason to think that the accounts were not heavily embellished by believers with a view to converting others to the cause.

                            Originally posted by tabibito View Post
                            A tired rehash of rehashed claims, some of which have been refuted - others being simply a matter of jaundiced readings.
                            I see. Readings that disagree with your presuppositions are "jaundiced"?
                            “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                              The Jesus story was not written down until 40 to 80+ years after the "wondrous events" by non eyewitnesses in a credulous age.
                              It was no more credulous than any other age has been.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Doug Shaver View Post
                                It was no more credulous than any other age has been.
                                One would hope that in the age of modern science there would be less credulity than previously.
                                “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                                Comment

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