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If you think this is the area where you tell everyone you are sorry for eating their lunch out of the fridge, it probably isn't the place for you


This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.


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  • Originally posted by 37818 View Post
    You would reject your own experience with God as subjective, no doubt.
    he already said he would not even believe his own experience even if God did miracles for him.


    This shows why everyone didn't believe in Jesus even when he came back from the dead. They knew that to admit he was who he said he was would mean they could not continue living their life of selfishness and sin.

    John 3:19 19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by 37818 View Post
      You will not be able to not admit that you had. And your name being removed from the book of life - you will be eternal toast.
      Such a loving God!
      “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
        sure. whatever you want. I said it was someone you knew. I assume you would know if they were really dead or not.
        If someone I knew was pronounced and revived I would assume that the original assessment had been incorrect and seek a natural explanation. This is what reasonable people would do. A natural explanation is more likely than attributing it to a miracle, don't you think?

        no. this started because you we were talking about why people believe and I said I did because I found the evidence to be good, and you started questioning what evidence is good. So I showed you that for you NO EVIDENCE WOULD BE GOOD ENOUGH.
        The only “evidence” you have provided has been grounded in your own subjective experience and outlandish hypotheticals, i.e. NO EVIDENCE.

        apparently Jesus did give those people verifiable empirical evidence when he came back to life huh? They were not as close minded as you.
        We don’t know that. All we have are accounts from a gullible era, dated decades after the event and with no eyewitness reportage.

        sure you will Tassy. ha. you will fall to your knees and beg and apologize and cry like a baby. that is what you will do.
        And then thrown into the pits of everlasting torment. Right!
        “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

        Comment


        • If I find myself face-to-face with God after I die, I will not attempt to deny him then.
          Originally posted by 37818 View Post
          You will not be able to not admit that you had.
          I didn't say I would try to. I would readily admit having not believed in him before seeing him face to face. After all, it would be consummately pointless for me to try to lie to an omniscient judge, would it not?

          Originally posted by 37818 View Post
          And your name being removed from the book of life - you will be eternal toast.
          It's his game, he made the rules. If the rules mean that people like me have no hope, it's not our fault.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
            If someone I knew was pronounced and revived I would assume that the original assessment had been incorrect and seek a natural explanation. This is what reasonable people would do. A natural explanation is more likely than attributing it to a miracle, don't you think?
            assume they have been dead and buried for years. and you saw the body after it had been crushed under a 2 ton weight and you could recognize them and you had dna confirmation of the identity. OK?

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
              Such a loving God!

              But yes, that everyone's name is in the book of life to begin with.
              Hebrews 2:3,
              . . . How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard [him]; . . .
              . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

              . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

              Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Doug Shaver View Post
                I didn't say I would try to. I would readily admit having not believed in him before seeing him face to face. After all, it would be consummately pointless for me to try to lie to an omniscient judge, would it not?
                So would you not think that such a God could make Himself known to you personally?

                It's his game, he made the rules. If the rules mean that people like me have no hope, it's not our fault.
                What makes you think it is not your fault if you reject knowing for yourself?
                . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                Comment


                • Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                  So would you not think that such a God could make Himself known to you personally?
                  Yes, I would think that.

                  Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                  What makes you think it is not your fault if you reject knowing for yourself?
                  I know my own mind better than any Christian knows it.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                    assume they have been dead and buried for years. and you saw the body after it had been crushed under a 2 ton weight and you could recognize them and you had dna confirmation of the identity. OK?
                    And you think this is a likely scenario, do you?

                    As I say, The only “evidence” you have provided has been grounded in your own subjective experience and outlandish hypotheticals such as this one.
                    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                      But yes, that everyone's name is in the book of life to begin with.
                      Hebrews 2:3,
                      . . . How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard [him]; . . .
                      Ah, so it's all predestined is it? In that case I'm doomed.
                      “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                        And you think this is a likely scenario, do you?
                        of course it would not be likely. That is why it is called a "miracle"


                        As I say, The only “evidence” you have provided has been grounded in your own subjective experience and outlandish hypotheticals such as this one.
                        I am asking you that IF you could get exactly the evidence you say you require to believe in God, what would it be? I even gave you some examples and nothing is good enough. Not even God bringing someone back from the dead for you.

                        So basically you have proven to me that no evidence would ever be good enough. If you got exactly what you asked for and still would not believe, then nothing will convince you.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                          of course it would not be likely. That is why it is called a "miracle"
                          Ir would only be called a "miracle" if it happened. But it hasn’t so your example is a pointless exercise.

                          I am asking you that IF you could get exactly the evidence you say you require to believe in God, what would it be? I even gave you some examples and nothing is good enough. Not even God bringing someone back from the dead for you.

                          So basically you have proven to me that no evidence would ever be good enough. If you got exactly what you asked for and still would not believe, then nothing will convince you.
                          Perhaps we should try this in reverse. What evidence would it take for you to NOT believe in God?
                          “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                            Ir would only be called a "miracle" if it happened. But it hasn’t so your example is a pointless exercise.



                            Perhaps we should try this in reverse. What evidence would it take for you to NOT believe in God?
                            Prove to me that Jesus did not come back to life. Show me his body and evidence that it really is him.

                            Your turn.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                              Prove to me that Jesus did not come back to life. Show me his body and evidence that it really is him.

                              Your turn.
                              You're the one making the claim that Jesus came back to life. The burden of proof rests with you.
                              “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                                You're the one making the claim that Jesus came back to life. The burden of proof rests with you.
                                No, it doesn't? You're the one who asked him what evidence it would take for him not to believe in God and he answered with the post you're responding to. You don't bear any burden of proof for your own personal beliefs. Perhaps you should consider taking a break from arguing if you can't even remember what you yourself wrote just yesterday?

                                Comment

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