Healthcare

[Catholicity]

Congress is useful for more than just healthcare.

If Progress means things moving forward then what is Congress?

[guacamole]

Congress is useful for more than just healthcare.

Like chumming the water?

[Meh Gerbil]

Note to Starlight: It is considered a violation of forum protocol to 'Amen' only those posts that hack on Republicans while ignoring posts that hate on both parties. You receive +1 MG infraction. Don't do it again.

[Starlight]

The problem with healthcare policy in the US is if you put 3 conservatives in a room, they won't agree on a plan and will come up with 2 plans between them. That's why everyone hates Trumpcare. Conservatives can't even seem to agree among themselves as to what the basic goals are (e.g. is it a goal for more people to have insurance? Or a goal to ensure lowered premiums? Or a goal to have a more competitive healthcare market? Or a goal to have a healthier populace? Or a goal to have more patient choice? Or a goal to have smaller government?)... for example, Paul Ryan this week was saying that less people having health insurance was Totally Fine which raised a few eyebrows.

I suspect the conservatives in this forum couldn't all agree on a healthcare plan if their lives depended on it.

[Starlight]

'Amen' only those posts that hack on Republicans while ignoring posts that hate on both parties.

Oh don't worry I hate the democratic party too. I supported Stein in the general, and think Clinton was an awful candidate. And I do strongly strongly dislike Obamacare. It could have been greatly improved by:
- Allowing people to buy-into medicare, forcing the private insurance companies to compete against the insurance the government was offering people ("Public Option")
- Allowing government and private groups to negotiate drug prices and import drugs from other countries (e.g. Canada), to lower the prices people were paying for drugs

Of course, doing away with the whole private insurance market, and just having the government provide free healthcare to everyone, like has been done in my country for the past 76 years, is much more efficient, cost-effective, and far less stressful for all concerned. But it's quite amusing watching Americans running around with their hair on fire arguing over how to re-invent the healthcare wheel.

[Meh Gerbil]

Oh don't worry I hate the democratic party too. I supported Stein in the general, and think Clinton was an awful candidate. And I do strongly strongly dislike Obamacare. It could have been greatly improved by:
- Allowing people to buy-into medicare, forcing the private insurance companies to compete against the insurance the government was offering people ("Public Option")
- Allowing government and private groups to negotiate drug prices and import drugs from other countries (e.g. Canada), to lower the prices people were paying for drugs

Of course, doing away with the whole private insurance market, and just having the government provide free healthcare to everyone, like has been done in my country for the past 76 years, is much more efficient, cost-effective, and far less stressful for all concerned. But it's quite amusing watching Americans running around with their hair on fire arguing over how to re-invent the healthcare wheel.

In our state we have 'no-fault' auto insurance.
What that means is if someone hits my car he pays his own deductible and I pay my own deductible and we are each covered by our own insurance.
That sounds like a nice compromise until you realize that anytime I place a claim my rates go up - which means my rates go up for accidents I didn't cause.

Plus everyone is required by law to have insurance.

This law was designed to save the insurance company money but it doesn't save the auto owners any money.
http://www.insure.com/car-insurance/...nce-rates.html <--- Michigan has the most expensive car insurance in the nation.

For the little guys, like you and I, just about anytime the government gets involved in something the price is going to skyrocket. That isn't because government isn't inherently bad (as the Republicans claim) - it is because even if a fraction of our representatives are for sale we get stupid laws like those in Michigan - laws that make the rich even richer while jacking over the average consumer.

So when it comes to healthcare laws I want the government's role to be diminished as much as possible. I want the companies to be forced to compete in a market place where the consumer gets to decide what he buys instead of fat idiots in smoke filled rooms deciding what we buy. I want the lobbyist, the gin, the hookers and all that to be taken out of the equation. I don't want insurance companies answering to the federal government, I want them answering to the demands of the market place. The free market has proven time and time again that it can force the cost of anything and everything down. Let's give that a shot.

In this scenario the federal government would be in the role of fighting price fixing and that sort of thing - the kind of enforcement that an insurance company wouldn't do on its own.

[Darth Executor]

So when it comes to healthcare laws I want the government's role to be diminished as much as possible. I want the companies to be forced to compete in a market place where the consumer gets to decide what he buys instead of fat idiots in smoke filled rooms deciding what we buy. I want the lobbyist, the gin, the hookers and all that to be taken out of the equation. I don't want insurance companies answering to the federal government, I want them answering to the demands of the market place. The free market has proven time and time again that it can force the cost of anything and everything down. Let's give that a shot.

Health insurance companies don't provide health care, I'm not sure how you expect the free market to lower healthcare costs by liberalizing health care insurance law. There is nothing the free market can do about it. You can probably get some savings by moving all the insurance companies into states with low minimum wages and the like but the bulk of the cost has nothing to do with the company itself.

[The Thinker]

I've a tendency to support conservative Republicans.
I've a tendency to abhor liberal Democrats.

That said, the fact that the Republicans do not have a substantive replacement for Obamacare waiting in the wings AND the fact that they aren't going to present for a vote any of the previous repeal bills pretty much proves they're a bunch of sniveling cowards and empty suits.

Sniveling. Cowards.
Empty. Suits.

I wouldn't believe a word Paul Ryan says unless he was choking to death.
The 'GAHHH HACK GAHHH' would be the first honest thing he's ever said.

Go to the hot place.
Pigs.

Paul Ryan has government healthcare. He's not worried.

[Meh Gerbil]

Paul Ryan has government healthcare. He's not worried.

I think that Congress should be given health care benefits identical to what the poorest in our country get.
That would get this problem fixed.

[The Thinker]

I think that Congress should be given health care benefits identical to what the poorest in our country get.
That would get this problem fixed.

That would immediate fix things.

[Meh Gerbil]

That would immediate fix things.

You and I are the only two people who should be allowed to vote.

[The Thinker]

You and I are the only two people who should be allowed to vote.

Back in the day William F. Buckley Jr. (one of the few conservatives I admired) suggested raising the voting standards so high that it would make at least 60% of the population on the lower educational tier ineligible to vote. I thought that was an interesting idea.

[Meh Gerbil]

Back in the day William F. Buckley Jr. (one of the few conservatives I admired) suggested raising the voting standards so high that it would make at least 60% of the population on the lower educational tier ineligible to vote. I thought that was an interesting idea.

I don't equate education with wisdom.
That said, I think the ability to pass a rudimentary civics course might be a good idea.

It won't ever happen.
There seems to be a very large number of people who think confirming citizenship is 'racist' so anything beyond acquiring proof of citizenship is definitely out of the question.

Probably need to start the whole democracy thing over somewhere else.

[Starlight]

That sounds like a nice compromise until you realize that anytime I place a claim my rates go up - which means my rates go up for accidents I didn't cause.

My insurance company doesn't increase my rates unless I'm at fault. Sounds like a weird choice by your insurance company.

This law was designed to save the insurance company money but it doesn't save the auto owners any money.

You should vote the politicians that passed it out of office and get some better ones in.

For the little guys, like you and I, just about anytime the government gets involved in something the price is going to skyrocket. That isn't because government isn't inherently bad (as the Republicans claim) - it is because even if a fraction of our representatives are for sale we get stupid laws like those in Michigan - laws that make the rich even richer while jacking over the average consumer.

I'm sorry to hear that. I suggest you try and do something about the corruption in your system. My country often gets rated as having the least-corrupt government in the world that is the most-responsive to voters, and government here is about making things cheaper and better for the average person. Improving your democracy I think is a greatly worthwhile goal and it seems like there's a lot that needs to be done on that front in America.

I think, however, that you overestimate the problems with your government. Yes, there is a great deal of corruption and a great deal of serving of special interests, but there is also some governing for the people. And that's quite important, because trying to get "as little government as possible" is akin to pulling the police off the streets - it's a terrible idea - the private companies will just run wild and screw over their customers and the environment if the government isn't there ensuring at least some basic limits to their behavior. The solution to corrupt government is not getting rid of government, because that just gives free rein to the very people who were corrupting the government in the first place, the correct solution is to decorrupt the government.

So when it comes to healthcare laws I want the government's role to be diminished as much as possible. I want the companies to be forced to compete in a market place where the consumer gets to decide what he buys instead of fat idiots in smoke filled rooms deciding what we buy.

You realize the entity that would be forcing those companies to compete would be the government, right? And what you describe is basically exactly what Obamacare tries to do: It creates marketplaces in which the insurance companies are forced to compete and tries to make clear to consumers what they are buying, rather than letting the insurance companies write tiny fine print into your policy that says basically "and if we feel like it we don't have to actually pay out".

The free market has proven time and time again that it can force the cost of anything and everything down. Let's give that a shot.

That's what Obamacare tries to do. Unfortunately it doesn't make much sense because healthcare is not really a natural market. When you're sick you don't have time to shop round for the best product. And you can't compare and contrast the outcomes of different treatments ahead of time. And there aren't enough health insurance companies in the market to properly compete against each other. That's why the government needs to offer a baseline product in the marketplace - the option to buy medicare - in order to force the private insurers to compete properly against that.

[Leonhard]

The problem with healthcare policy in the US is if you put 3 conservatives in a room, they won't agree on a plan and will come up with 2 plans between them.

4 synopsis of plans that consist mostly of empty, unrealistic promises. They all agree that it's different and better than what the liberals want. And one of them will start on a rant about the gold standard returning as well.

Liberals on the other hand will all agree on what the best thing would be, but they would work endlessly on compromising with Republicans.