Obama's Watergate?

[Pilgrim]

MM is right though. It all depends on the wording I guess, and the level of layers between the offer and the maker as well I guess.

I mean, if you were to say, "hey, I know you want to run for this office, but I think we have a place for you here that better suits your skill and our over all game plan as a party..." That's one thing. If you just come out and say, "We can't have you there. Tell you what, I know you don't have the skill or credentials for it, but we'll put you in position over here if you drop so our guy can win the election..."

It all depends on wording as well as intent.

[Mountain Man]

Why? It doesn't seem so bad. The president is allowed to fill offices, no?

Well for one thing, influencing an election with the offer of a job or other compensation is illegal.

http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/18/I/29/600

[Philosophickle]

MM is right though. It all depends on the wording I guess, and the level of layers between the offer and the maker as well I guess.

I mean, if you were to say, "hey, I know you want to run for this office, but I think we have a place for you here that better suits your skill and our over all game plan as a party..." That's one thing. If you just come out and say, "We can't have you there. Tell you what, I know you don't have the skill or credentials for it, but we'll put you in position over here if you drop so our guy can win the election..."

It all depends on wording as well as intent.

But neither wording or intent are going to put him in watergate land.
I see it like this. However long ago, Obama was offered a healthcare vote from Arlan as long as he would support him in his election. Obama said OK, and when the time came, he told his competitors that they shouldn't run, blah blah blah, and that he could find other jobs for them. It seems perfectly reasonable that you try to spread your party out a little, rather than have them all fight for one spot. So he said look, you can have this gravy job that doesn't require you to do much (advisers do all the work anyway) and you can run again in 5-10 years.

And this is supposed to remind me of watergate?

[Pilgrim]

Gotcha.

[Mountain Man]

But neither wording or intent are going to put him in watergate land.
I see it like this. However long ago, Obama was offered a healthcare vote from Arlan as long as he would support him in his election. Obama said OK, and when the time came, he told his competitors that they shouldn't run, blah blah blah, and that he could find other jobs for them. It seems perfectly reasonable that you try to spread your party out a little, rather than have them all fight for one spot. So he said look, you can have this gravy job that doesn't require you to do much (advisers do all the work anyway) and you can run again in 5-10 years.

And this is supposed to remind me of watergate?

But never the mind the fact that the law specifically prohibits this sort of election tampering, right? If there is any truth to these charges then Obama is looking at a felony conviction and impeachment.

[Pilgrim]

Hmmm, at the most, if it rises to that level, Rahm might be facing trouble. To answer your op again, no, it doesn't mark the end for Obama.

[Pilgrim]

Here it is, from former ethics advisor to the Bush administration:
http://mediamatters.org/blog/201005250033

The allegation that the job offer was somehow a "bribe" in return for Sestak not running in the primary is difficult to support. Sestak, if he had taken a job in the Administration, would not have been permitted to run in the Pennsylvania primary. The Hatch Act prohibits a federal employee from being a candidate for nomination or election to a partisan political office. 5 U.S.C. § 7323(a)(3). He had to choose one or the other, but he could not choose both.

Sestack was not a federal employee so it's not a crime. End of story.

[Mountain Man]

Here it is, from former ethics advisor to the Bush administration:
http://mediamatters.org/blog/201005250033


Sestack was not a federal employee so it's not a crime. End of story.

Um, the whole point of the job offer was to get Sestak out of the primary race, so the fact that if had he accepted the offer he would have been unable to run is irrelevant. The White Hourse wanted Sestak out so their guy could have smooth sailing, so they offered Sestak something of value in exchange for him dropping out of the race which is explicitly prohibited by law (if it was sufficiently valuable to entice him to drop out of the race then it was something of value as far as the law is concerned).

And just to be clear, Sestak was not offered a job that coincidentally would have required him to drop out of the race; on the contrary, he was offered a job specifically in exchange for his dropping out of the race:

The Larry Kane Report

“Were you ever offered a job to get out of this race? (The contest against Arlen Specter).

Sestak didn’t flinch .

“Yes,” he answered.

“Was it Navy Secretary?”, I asked

“No comment.”

He proceeded to talk about staying in the race but added that “he was called many times” to pull out.

Later, I asked, “So you were offered a job by someone in the White House?”

He said, “Yes.”

http://www.larrykane.com/2010/05/28/...like-wildfire/

© source where applicable

Also, it's an astronomical stretch to suggest that Rahm Emanuel was acting indecently without Obama's knowledge.

[Pilgrim]

Um, the whole point of the job offer was to get Sestak out of the primary race, so the fact that if had he accepted the offer he would have been unable to run is irrelevant. The White Hourse wanted Sestak out so their guy could have smooth sailing, so they offered Sestak something of value in exchange for him dropping out of the race which is explicitly prohibited by law (if it was sufficiently valuable to entice him to drop out of the race then it was something of value as far as the law is concerned).

And just to be clear, Sestak was not offered a job that coincidentally would have required him to drop out of the race; on the contrary, he was offered a job specifically in exchange for his dropping out of the race:

The Larry Kane Report

“Were you ever offered a job to get out of this race? (The contest against Arlen Specter).

Sestak didn’t flinch .

“Yes,” he answered.

“Was it Navy Secretary?”, I asked

“No comment.”

He proceeded to talk about staying in the race but added that “he was called many times” to pull out.

Later, I asked, “So you were offered a job by someone in the White House?”

He said, “Yes.”

http://www.larrykane.com/2010/05/28/...like-wildfire/

© source where applicable

Also, it's an astronomical stretch to suggest that Rahm Emanuel was acting indecently without Obama's knowledge.

All of that may very well be true, indeed I think it is, but if Sestak isn't a federal employee then it's completely legal. My initial criticism that this betrays the idea of a transparent administration still stands. Though, everyone seems to know and have known about this so maybe even that's not so egregious.

[Mountain Man]

Also, it's an astronomical stretch to suggest that Rahm Emanuel was acting indecently without Obama's knowledge.

I meant "independently", not "indecently".

Anyway...

All of that may very well be true, indeed I think it is, but if Sestak isn't a federal employee then it's completely legal.

I don't know where you're getting this idea that it's only illegal to bribe someone if they're a federal employee.

[Pilgrim]

Read my post number 37 and the link with it which quotes former Bush adviser on ethics, Richard Painter, explaining this. He explains that the law in question only prohibits such offers when made to federal employees.

[Mountain Man]

Read my post number 37 and the link with it which quotes former Bush adviser on ethics, Richard Painter, explaining this. He explains that the law in question only prohibits such offers when made to federal employees.

I suggest you read it again because it says nothing of the sort. Painter's defense seems to be that the only reason Sestak was asked to drop out of the race was because accepting the job would have required him to ("The Hatch Act prohibits a federal employee from being a candidate for nomination or election to a partisan political office."). Sestak apparently understood things differently and alleges that he was offered the job as an incentive to drop out of the race.

[guacamole]

I suggest you read it again because it says nothing of the sort. Painter's defense seems to be that the only reason Sestak was asked to drop out of the race was because accepting the job would have required him to ("The Hatch Act prohibits a federal employee from being a candidate for nomination or election to a partisan political office."). Sestak apparently understood things differently and alleges that he was offered the job as an incentive to drop out of the race.

Obviously, I'm no expert, but if we are reliant on Sestak's understanding, then there isn't much of a case because that's a fairly shaky thing upon which to build a prosecution, no? I mean, even if it is implicitly understood to be a bribe, how far can that go in the courts?

Either way. It's fun political theater to watch. It good come-uppance for people who ran on a transparent platform of changing Washington. If nothing else, the hypocrisy is obvious.

fwiw,
guaca.

[Philosophickle]

Either way. It's fun political theater to watch. It good come-uppance for people who ran on a transparent platform of changing Washington. If nothing else, the hypocrisy is obvious.

It's not that hard to find broken campaign promises.

[Mountain Man]

Obviously, I'm no expert, but if we are reliant on Sestak's understanding, then there isn't much of a case because that's a fairly shaky thing upon which to build a prosecution, no?

I'm not inclined to believe that Sestak's understanding of the offer is mistaken. I mean really, if everything was on the up-and-up then why didn't the president present the offer himself instead of sending Bill Clinton to do his dirty work?

I mean, even if it is implicitly understood to be a bribe, how far can that go in the courts?

Depends on what comes out in the investigation.