Now The Liberals Are After My Organs...

[Sparko]

True, but not another person, which is logically possible if my body is merely another one of my possessions.

huh?

[guacamole]

huh?

Paragraph 3

Lastly, knowing that our possessions of the ordinary sort can be subject to seizure by debt or in compulsion from the court, do we really want to assert that our body is the same sort of thing and substance as those that can be taken from us legally? Should a person be forced by lawsuit to sell his extra organs to pay court ordered fines or settlements? Should a person be sold into slavery to settle a debt, a bankruptcy? And yet if a court can force liquidation of all our possessions, then why not? If a body is the same as any other possession, then there is no logical reason not to. Yes, we may pass law to prevent it, but the current legal status quo already reflects that protection without the legal and logical gerrymandering.

[Sparko]

Paragraph 3

If you don't own your body then what is to stop all that?

[guacamole]

If you don't own your body then what is to stop all that?

The fact that possessions can be taken but bodies cannot because they are of a different type than possessions?

[Sparko]

The fact that possessions can be taken but bodies cannot because they are of a different type than possessions?

uh no?

If you don't own your body, then there is nothing stopping the government from doing whatever it wants with it. It doesn't belong to you. You don't belong to you. You then have no say in yourself or your body.

[Littlejoe]

The fact that possessions can be taken but bodies cannot because they are of a different type than possessions?

I don't understand why you keep making this distinction...both can be taken from you both legally and illegally. It doesn't support either assertion IMO. Do these words ring a bell?

Source: 5th Amendment to the US Constitution

"...nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."

© Copyright Original Source

[guacamole]

uh no?

If you don't own your body, then there is nothing stopping the government from doing whatever it wants with it. It doesn't belong to you. You don't belong to you. You then have no say in yourself or your body.

The same thing that stops the government from doing whatever it wants. The law.

[guacamole]

I don't understand why you keep making this distinction...

I don't know a different way to say it. Legally, a body is not a possession, no matter how much the armchair libertarians of Tweb want it to be so.

both can be taken from you both legally and illegally.

Illegal seizure is irrelevant here--anyone can do whatever they want illegally. Another private citizen cannot legally seize your person, or any part of it, in service to a debt or settlement because your body isn't a possession.

Source: 5th Amendment to the US Constitution

"...nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."

© Copyright Original Source

I'm not sure what you're angling for here.

fwiw,
guacamole

[Littlejoe]

I don't know a different way to say it. Legally, a body is not a possession, no matter how much the armchair libertarians of Tweb want it to be so.

Ok of which you have offered no more than your assertion...

Illegal seizure is irrelevant here--anyone can do whatever they want illegally. Another private citizen cannot legally seize your person, or any part of it, in service to a debt or settlement because your body isn't a possession.

ok, then we agree on this point, all your statements are in context of legally.

I'm not sure what you're angling for here.

fwiw,
guacamole

You can't be deprived of your body, (life, liberty) or property without due process...see's pretty clear to me.

[guacamole]

Ok of which you have offered no more than your assertion...

It's kind of a strange point when no one else has offered anything other than assertion. Feel free to search through legal websites to determine to what extent a body is or is not property.

ok, then we agree on this point, all your statements are in context of legally.

Ok.

You can't be deprived of your body, (life, liberty) or property without due process...see's pretty clear to me.

Because your body's not property, unlike early laws that allowed for things like debtor slavery or debtor's prison.

fwiw,
guacamole