Hell. A Poor Motivation For Conversion?

[shunyadragon]

OK guys here's an argument some critics of Christianity are using. Would appreciate some thoughts on this here so I can take it back to them:

Christianity teaches Hell. It's a poor motivation for conversion as it is based on fear.

Discuss.

Thanks guys!

I like Mark Twain's spin on the subject.

[gharfish]

Because Jesus rose from the dead, doofus. And thousands of years later, this is historically verifiable.

Keep in mind I responded and said why would they likewise be swayed by Jesus' gospel (?) So, I meant, Why would an "unbeliever be swayed to" believe that they were sinners in need of God's forgiveness either ? Why ? Because this is something they also don't believe exists (as true); right ? Why should they accept as really being so that they needed to decide to personally trust in Jesus, the sole incarnation of God, for the sparing forgiveness of sins - salvation from any and all possible punishment ? This gospel message Jesus gives right along with His warnings about hell.

Did Jesus try to convince, with any sorts of proofs, the people that there was to come (after death) a day of judgement by God ?

Jesus, as far as I can tell, thinks it enough to put forth and assert the reality of hell for His listeners and He leaves it to the individual to not only trust Him as an authority on it, but also to trust their intuition about this - all of this.




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[Pilgrim]

Most unbelievers, at least in the West have some notion of Hell, or general belief in it, even if they do not fully understand the truth of it.

I disagree wholeheartedly. It is perfectly suited to motivate a lost person to seek salvation through Christ who justifies.

I would say we sanctify ourselves "because God is God."

If the only reason you turn to Christ is because you're afraid of what might happen to you if you don't, or conversely that you think you'll get something good for yourself if you do then your faith is totally self centered.

The chief end of man is to Glorify God, not avoid hell.

[Zguy28]

If the only reason you turn to Christ is because you're afraid of what might happen to you if you don't, or conversely that you think you'll get something good for yourself if you do then your faith is totally self centered.

The chief end of man is to Glorify God, not avoid hell.

So, you believe it is wrong for an unbeliever to seek salvation for their soul?

You believe it is wrong to seek a Savior to remove God's wrath from their head?


Seeking "treasure in heaven" (eternal rewards) is not self-centeredness. Seeking worldly treasure is.

Sanctification from the Holy Spirit is what leads us to selfless acts and thoughts and ultimately to glorify God and not ourselves.

The gospel is about both. Its about the wages of sin and its about glorifying God. Not one or the other.

[mossrose]

If you don't talk about Hell in evangelism, then how do you explain to people that they need a Savior?

I can tell you from my own personal testimony that fear of Hell sent me crawling and crying to the foot of the cross seeking mercy and salvation at the age of 29. I found it in Jesus. Praise God for His mercy to me a sinner deserving of Hell!

My experience was much the same. The idea that I might be lost eternally because of my sin brought me to Christ.

And I give praise to Him every single day for His grace and redemption.

[Pilgrim]

So, you believe it is wrong for an unbeliever to seek salvation for their soul?

You believe it is wrong to seek a Savior to remove God's wrath from their head?


Seeking "treasure in heaven" (eternal rewards) is not self-centeredness. Seeking worldly treasure is.

Sanctification from the Holy Spirit is what leads us to selfless acts and thoughts and ultimately to glorify God and not ourselves.

The gospel is about both. Its about the wages of sin and its about glorifying God. Not one or the other.

Fair enough, I agree it is about both. But our culture focuses mostly on what's in it for us. If the only reason we turn to God is because of fear, then we're missing the point. As scripture reminds us, "perfect love drives out fear."

Basically what I hear from a lot of people is that if God existed, and was creator and sovereign, but we had no fear of hell and death, they'd pretty much ignore God. My concern is that people only carry their God round with them as a get out of hell free insurance policy. That makes our faith about us rather than about God.

[ApologiaPhoenix]

One of the themes of the early Christian church was that of judgment. The judge is standing at the door. Repent. Love is our main motivator often today, but it wasn't necessarily so then, although love did play a part. The Philippian jailor was not won over by love, for instance, but by seeing the power of God and knowing he needed to repent in the face of power like this.

Personally, I don't think God cares a bit what gets you to him. All that matters is that you get to him. Once that happens, he will take care of things. He will shape you into the person so that while fear may be the main motivator for conversion, it will not be for sanctification. We are told after conversion to have no fear of judgment in 1 John 4.

I would that all could come simply by hearing of the love of God, but I'm not going to avoid speaking about Hell just because "Well that might offend someone" or "That's a poor motivation." If it gets just one person to come, it's worth it. I just then trust God in his Word that he will conform them to the likeness of Christ.

[Zguy28]

Fair enough, I agree it is about both. But our culture focuses mostly on what's in it for us. If the only reason we turn to God is because of fear, then we're missing the point. As scripture reminds us, "perfect love drives out fear."

Fear can be a very powerful motivation that drives us towards that "perfect love." We cannot experience that perfect love without first fearing God's wrath and being driven into the loving arms of God.

The passage you mentioned applies to those who know what perfect love is: believers. We have no need any longer to fear Death and Hades (healthy fear of God is another matter). The unbeliever who is the subject of evangelism does fear.

1 John 4:14-19 (New American Standard Bible)

14We have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

15Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.

16We have come to know and have believed the love which God has for us God is love, and the one who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.

17By this, love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; because as He is, so also are we in this world.

18There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.

19We love, because He first loved us.

Basically what I hear from a lot of people is that if God existed, and was creator and sovereign, but we had no fear of hell and death, they'd pretty much ignore God.

I think that is the case for most people who do not embrace Christ until adulthood. Helping a person to realize and admit that they are sinners is impossible without talking about the consequences IMHO. It doesn't have to be all "fire and brimstone" talk, but just the honest truth of it.

Jesus said it perfectly:

Matthew 10:27-29 (New American Standard Bible)

27"What I tell you in the darkness, speak in the light; and what you hear whispered in your ear, proclaim upon the housetops.

28"Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

My concern is that people only carry their God round with them as a get out of hell free insurance policy. That makes our faith about us rather than about God.

A valid concern to be sure.

[RBerman]

"Fear of Hell" and "Glory to God" are complimentary reasons to become a Christian; nothing about them is mutually exclusive. Some evangelistic efforts lean entirely on one or the other, but I prefer a mix.

[bling]

How much have you been involved in the conversion of others (allowing the Holy Spirit to work through you)?
I have not had much “luck” with people being converted around me that do not acknowledge a “problem”. We are all needy people, but some will not acknowledge a need. I do not push them, but make sure they know I am there for them. They often help me with others, show a form of generosity and over time something comes up, but it is hard for humans to accept charity.
The question of hell comes up with some mostly because they are going through what they consider to be a living hell. They want relieve and help from the present tragedy, which all seems to be part of God’s design.
You all seem to think “Love” should be the main or only motivation, but where in scripture does it suggest non believers have “Godly type Love”? The only initial way I have found for people to receive “Godly type Love” is in accepting it as a free undeserving and unconditional gift (Charity) in the form of accepting God’s forgiveness. (…he that is forgiven much Loves much…) The believer has Godly type Love as His main and only motivation, but what has God provided for the unbeliever to motivate him to be a believer?
I see God doing all He can to help motivate unbelievers to become believers and hell is part of that motivation.

[gharfish]

Bridge out ahead on the way you are going! Take the exit ramp before then. See the opportunities ? Why, there just went another one that you have passed up.


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[Teluog]

Sometimes I eat because I'm hungry, sometimes because something tastes good, sometimes because I know something is good for me. What difference does it make? I did what I was supposed to do: consume what I need. The gospel is no different.

[Kane]

Sometimes I eat because I'm hungry, sometimes because something tastes good, sometimes because I know something is good for me. What difference does it make? I did what I was supposed to do: consume what I need. The gospel is no different.

I'm sure the gospels agree that they're not quite so utilitarian as that, no?

You may be, and that's fine. But my readings of the gospels show me that it is not only utilitarian to imbibe god's word, but an ontological necessity. Do you see that?

[Teluog]

I'm sure the gospels agree that they're not quite so utilitarian as that, no?

You may be, and that's fine. But my readings of the gospels show me that it is not only utilitarian to imbibe god's word, but an ontological necessity. Do you see that?

I don't understand 3/4 of what you're trying to say.

[headheart]

Jack Chick's brainwashing techniques works on some ( madness )
Jesus was a hellavu lot smarter than Jack Chick, that is why he did not talk about it all the time. He only spoke about it when it was appropriate, and often cloaked it in metaphors. ie. worms, maggots, fire, brimstone, abraham's bosom, lake, chasma,...etc.

We are supposed to be busy preaching reconciliation, not hell and tar-nation!

Peace,
Eric J. Sawyer.