Hell. A Poor Motivation For Conversion?

[mickiel]

Delusions must work well for you because I'm seeing over 10 right now and not a single person has yet to say they place 100% trust in their pastor.

An hour ago there were 4, when you claimed 8, that was not true then. They maynot trust at your 100% scale, but they trust in their pastors, unless theres a new kind of Christian out there who couldcareless about their pastors, that I am unaware of. Your trying to prove that Christians don't trust in their pastors, I say your the one in delusion.

Peace.

[mickiel]

The Christian church is not what THEY say they are. Look at the topic of this thread, they use this " Hell", as a motivation for supposed conversion. What kind of evangelism tactic is that? Fearmoging.

Good greif man, open your eyes to your church.

Peace.

[lilpixieofterror]

An hour ago there were 4, when you claimed 8, that was not true then. They maynot trust at your 100% scale, but they trust in their pastors, unless theres a new kind of Christian out there who couldcareless about their pastors, that I am unaware of. Your trying to prove that Christians don't trust in their pastors, I say your the one in delusion.

Peace.

This is just a pile of burning strawman because you claimed that Christians trusted their pastor's 100%, a claim that isn't backed up, by the pool data, so now you're trying to change it up to mean that Christians don't 'trust' their pastors. This right here, shows me how 'honest' you really are because the reality is, you have to trust somebody, to one degree or another. I trust my parents, my husband, my co-workers, and my pastor, some I trust more than others, but what does that prove? Nothing really it's just a pile of burning strawman and nothing more.

[lilpixieofterror]

Your using the Catholic Church as an example of a " Shining City", good greif man, I'm for the first time in a long time, " Speechless."

Shocked and dumfounded.

Peace.

Did Jesus claim that the church would be without error and never make mistakes? None I know of, but again, if numbers are an indication, the RCC has that. What's the problem, are your excuses being exposed for what they really are and you're not liking it?

[mickiel]

This is just a pile of burning strawman because you claimed that Christians trusted their pastor's 100%, a claim that isn't backed up, by the pool data, so now you're trying to change it up to mean that Christians don't 'trust' their pastors. This right here, shows me how 'honest' you really are because the reality is, you have to trust somebody, to one degree or another. I trust my parents, my husband, my co-workers, and my pastor, some I trust more than others, but what does that prove? Nothing really it's just a pile of burning strawman and nothing more.

Call it what you wish, Christian Pastors complettely rule their churchs, and its important to them to do that. There may be a few exceptions, but most of them traditionally are " Overlords", and they know it if you don't. This is the funnel that satan uses to pour deception into their membership.

Peace.

[mickiel]

Did Jesus claim that the church would be without error and never make mistakes? None I know of, but again, if numbers are an indication, the RCC has that. What's the problem, are your excuses being exposed for what they really are and you're not liking it?

The church to come will be without Spot or wrinkle, and thats certainly not the Christian church. And I stand on that and give no excuses. The Roman Catholic church is a joke, and proof that the majority of people on earth can be deceived by churchs that are wrapped up in pomp and rituals.

Expose that.

Peace.

[mickiel]

Delusions must work well for you because I'm seeing over 10 right now and not a single person has yet to say they place 100% trust in their pastor.

Your the one deluted and deceptive, as of this moment, 6 have responded, • Edited by a Moderator •

Your puffing yourself up, you can't be trusted to be truthful. Neither can your pastors.

Peace.

Moderated By: Raphael

Please don't do that.

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Contact the forum moderator or an administrator in Private Message or email instead. If you feel you must publically complain or whine, please take it to the Psychotherapy Room unless told otherwise.

[RBerman]

6 people out of thousands of Christians here. That speaks volumes to me.

Hopefully the "volume" that it speaks is that the thread is less than a day old, so few of the "thousands of Christians here" have had a chance to see it. At one point I believe you said that you doubted that even a dozen Christians would fail to put their "full trust" in their pastor. We've found more than a dozen just with one request already, however.

An hour ago there were 4, when you claimed 8, that was not true then. They maynot trust at your 100% scale, but they trust in their pastors, unless theres a new kind of Christian out there who couldcareless about their pastors, that I am unaware of. Your trying to prove that Christians don't trust in their pastors, I say your the one in delusion.

Let's review. You may recall that I entered this discussion when you claimed, "I have yet to meet a Christian who does not put their full trust in their pastor." That sounds like "100% trust," wouldn't you agree? I disputed your claim, and yet you persisted. So I made a poll that asked Christians if they trusted their pastor "100%." At the time I made my previous post, there were eight people who had voted "No." (Now the number is up to twelve "No" on the poll, without a single "Yes" so far.) I don't know where your number of "an hour ago when there were four" comes from. Perhaps you're only counting the people who posted a comment, as opposed to the people who responded to the poll?

Your question was not, "Do you trust your pastor, or could you care less about him?" If you had asked that question, I would have told you that it was poorly formed. People care about their pastors. And they generally trust them. Why would you attend a church (or a stamp collecting club, for that matter) where you didn't have a general level of trust for the leadership? But most people do not trust their pastors indiscriminately, as you seemed to be claiming. Perhaps your original claim was overstated, and you really meant to say something like, "People generally extend the benefit of the doubt to their pastors, and sometimes they go too far into outright gullibility when they're told what they want to hear." Is that closer to your point?

[mickiel]

Perhaps your original claim was overstated, and you really meant to say something like, "People generally extend the benefit of the doubt to their pastors, and sometimes they go too far into outright gullibility when they're told what they want to hear." Is that closer to your point?

Well yes, thats closer to what I am saying. And I have been counting the responses, and not the poll, my apoligys for that.

Anyhow, whats done is done.

Peace.

[RBerman]

Well yes, thats closer to what I am saying. And I have been counting the responses, and not the poll, my apoligys for that. Anyhow, whats done is done.

Apology accepted; thank you. I see that one person has voted "Yes" on the poll now. Out of curiousity, was that you voting, so that you could see the poll results?

There may well be a small percentage of people who give their pastor/priest 100% trust. And you are correct that people do tend to trust other people, and leaders moreso. That's the way it should be, right? An organization doesn't get much accomplished when the membership doesn't trust the leadership. And on the other hand, trust should always be contingent, subject to revocation if it's abused. But your posts in this thread seem to show that you have a great distrust for authority in general; your operative word is that leaders "meddle." It would seem that what you really like is for yourself to be in charge, even if that means that the group you lead only includes yourself.

[Adrift]

Apology accepted; thank you. I see that one person has voted "Yes" on the poll now. Out of curiousity, was that you voting, so that you could see the poll results?

I believe that was lao tzu being silly.

[mickiel]

Apology accepted; thank you. I see that one person has voted "Yes" on the poll now. Out of curiousity, was that you voting, so that you could see the poll results?

There may well be a small percentage of people who give their pastor/priest 100% trust. And you are correct that people do tend to trust other people, and leaders moreso. That's the way it should be, right? An organization doesn't get much accomplished when the membership doesn't trust the leadership. And on the other hand, trust should always be contingent, subject to revocation if it's abused. But your posts in this thread seem to show that you have a great distrust for authority in general; your operative word is that leaders "meddle." It would seem that what you really like is for yourself to be in charge, even if that means that the group you lead only includes yourself.

No I have not voted. I think people should trust their leaders, to a certain extent, but Spiritually I think people need to trust God with all their hearts, not their leaders. I hold no intrest in leadership, I walk alone. And I do like being in charge of myself, I want no one between me and God. The trust that people put in their leaders is a target of satan, he uses that. If he gets to the leaders, he has gotten to the people. The leaders put out this lie that Christ spoke more of hell than he did heaven, and the members swallowed it without researching it for themselves. And this kind of thing happens in the Christian church all the time.

Peace.

[rogue06]

I believe that was lao tzu being a jerk.

FIFY n/c

[RBerman]

No I have not voted. I think people should trust their leaders, to a certain extent, but Spiritually I think people need to trust God with all their hearts, not their leaders. I hold no intrest in leadership, I walk alone. And I do like being in charge of myself, I want no one between me and God. The trust that people put in their leaders is a target of satan, he uses that. If he gets to the leaders, he has gotten to the people. The leaders put out this lie that Christ spoke more of hell than he did heaven, and the members swallowed it without researching it for themselves. And this kind of thing happens in the Christian church all the time.

The Bible does teach that no man is worthy of unquestioning trust. I agree that Satan can attack leaders, but no more or less than Satan will attack you as your own leader. As a member of a church, if I have a bad idea, I have the other members of the church, including some very godly men and women, to help me get back on course. What kind of error-correction safeguards do you have if you walk alone? The Bible gives many examples of how important it is for the people of God to gather and sit under the teaching of qualified men. What makes you exempt?

[Teluog]

hey mick, should we trust completely everything you say?