Hell. A Poor Motivation For Conversion?

[mickiel]

And yet it is fine when you're the one doing the assuming and presuming?

Well no its not, I have no business doing it either.

Peace.

[RBerman]

I do not take advice from Christians, but thank you for your concern. The way God deals with me is different, I only need to understand that, nobodyelse. You have no ideal how much I read the bible, nor do you know what God is doing with me.
Nor is it your business. I do not like the way Christians assume they know how others should deal with God, or how he is dealing with them.

Well, it's not my business when an old lady is about to get mugged in the alley either. But if I saw it happening, I would do something, because I care. I hope I don't offend you that I care.

[mickiel]

Well, it's not my business when an old lady is about to get mugged in the alley either. But if I saw it happening, I would do something, because I care. I hope I don't offend you that I care.

Its no offense that you care, just insulting that you think I need to read the bible, as if I don't and that God is not involved in my life. I feel no need to persuade you of whats going on in my life, because I don't totally understand it myself. If you feel like I am about to get mugged, don't worry about it, I don't need your salvation, I have the help I need.

The mugging is part of my traning. My suffering. I am called to suffer, and no welll meaning human can interfere with that.

Peace.

[RBerman]

Its no offense that you care, just insulting that you think I need to read the bible, as if I don't and that God is not involved in my life. I feel no need to persuade you of whats going on in my life, because I don't totally understand it myself. If you feel like I am about to get mugged, don't worry about it, I don't need your salvation, I have the help I need. The mugging is part of my traning. My suffering. I am called to suffer, and no welll meaning human can interfere with that.

I hope you feel differently some day. I certainly mean no offense, and I was not commenting on whether you do read the Bible already. If you do, then you know what a good thing it is and thus ought to agree with my recommendation that your read the Bible. If you don't, well, you should, even if you don't think you should.

[mickiel]

I hope you feel differently some day. I certainly mean no offense, and I was not commenting on whether you do read the Bible already. If you do, then you know what a good thing it is and thus ought to agree with my recommendation that your read the Bible. If you don't, well, you should, even if you don't think you should.

I study the bible everyday, and have done so for over 40 years.

Because I like it. I just don't interpit it as Christianity does.

Peace.

[Pilgrim]

I don't think...

Hey, something we can agree on.

[mickiel]

Hey, something we can agree on.

There are times that I don't think, so your sarcastic attack on me has some truth to it.

Peace.

[RBerman]

I study the bible everyday, and have done so for over 40 years. Because I like it. I just don't interpit it as Christianity does.

What do you like about it?

[mickiel]

What do you like about it?

I like God, and Christ, their plans for humanity. I like Salvation and the unlimited free Love it shows. I like mercy and forgiveness, the basic principles the bible is based on.

I like the future it shows for all.

Peace.

[justsumguy]

It really hurts my feelings that I"m the one who started arguing that Christians don't all agree with everything their pastors say and mickiel didn't list me as one of of the Christians who he had met.

What does a guy gotta do to get noticed around here? lol

[mickiel]

It really hurts my feelings that I"m the one who started arguing that Christians don't all agree with everything their pastors say and mickiel didn't list me as one of of the Christians who he had met.

What does a guy gotta do to get noticed around here? lol

Well I haven't met you, unless you consider talking with people online as meeting them. My mother is Christian, and shes a great woman. Shes an evangelist and speaker. We disagree on things, but the Love is greater than that. I met her Love long ago, and feel like I know her, and she knows me. She is the only Christian that I listen to in " A learning mode", and I have asked her to pray for me on occassion. I was raised in her church and left 37 years ago. I am still friends with all the Christians in that church, I was raised with the pastor. Other than who I run into online, those are the only Christians I deal with, because we all are childhood friends. We don't challange each other, we Love each other, inspite of our different doctrinal views.

So according to the situation, I will befriend Christians, or " Meet them in mutual respect."

I am not a monster because I am not Christian. Christianity does not hold a monopoly on God.

Peace.

[RBerman]

I like God, and Christ, their plans for humanity. I like Salvation and the unlimited free Love it shows. I like mercy and forgiveness, the basic principles the bible is based on. I like the future it shows for all.

I like those aspects of the Bible too. What do you make of the Bible's discussions of God's holiness, wrath over sin, and judgment?

[mickiel]

I like those aspects of the Bible too. What do you make of the Bible's discussions of God's holiness, wrath over sin, and judgment?

Well I think Gods Holiness is his characther, and the arua that pertrudes into reality. His Holiness is his Goodness, his Love, his Kindness, his Gentleness, all the characteristics listed in Gal. 5:22-23. These are the ways and means of God, and he is unmlimited in these charactheristics, which compile his Holiness. These ways, along with his awesome power, makes him Holy.

In my view, the wrath of God is his " Reaction to sin", not the sinner. And his wrath will not always endure, meaning it is only temporary. Once sin is no more, then his wrath will be no more, it only exist in him, because sin now exist.

The judgement of God, in my view, is a predetermined thing, really as all things are with God. I think God has already passed judgement on humanity, and that his judgement is that we all have life. Jesus sacrifice paied for this judgement, and now our salvation is free. I am aware that many believe that Gods judgements are harsh, that much of humanity is destined to be judged into the christian hell and punished forever. I simply disagree with that. I consider the judgement of God to be only for one ultimate purpose, to free humanity from sin, and usher us all into his Kingdom. I consider his judgements as righteousness, and he has not willed, or judged, that any perish but that all will inherit forgiveness.

He has the grace to do this in his great characther.

Peace.

[RBerman]

The judgement of God, in my view, is a predetermined thing, really as all things are with God. I think God has already passed judgement on humanity, and that his judgement is that we all have life. Jesus sacrifice paied for this judgement, and now our salvation is free. I am aware that many believe that Gods judgements are harsh, that much of humanity is destined to be judged into the christian hell and punished forever. I simply disagree with that. I consider the judgement of God to be only for one ultimate purpose, to free humanity from sin, and usher us all into his Kingdom. I consider his judgements as righteousness, and he has not willed, or judged, that any perish but that all will inherit forgiveness.

What do you make of the places where Jesus describes sinners as being cast outside of the kingdom?

Matthew 13:40-43

“As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear.

Many other examples could be given; three parables in Matthew 25 end with the king casting the wicked out of the kingdom into "outer darkness" or "eternal fire" for instance.

[mickiel]

What do you make of the places where Jesus describes sinners as being cast outside of the kingdom?

Matthew 13:40-43

“As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear.

Many other examples could be given; three parables in Matthew 25 end with the king casting the wicked out of the kingdom into "outer darkness" or "eternal fire" for instance.

Well in my understanding of scripture, Jesus in Matt. 13:40-43 is not talking about humans, but demons. In vs. 38 he said the tares are the sons of the evil one. In vs. 39 he said the enemy who sowed them is the devil, and that the reapers of this harvest are going to be Angels. Not humans. The eternal fire was prepared for satan and his demons, or it was created for them, not humans.

But listen, I already know the christian mindset, my eyes and heart are gearded toward the Salvation of all, so thats what I see in scripture. The christian mindset is not built like that, its heart is gearded toward the lake of fire being for humans, and for a kind of judgement from God that excludes most sinners from being saved.

I mean you see in scripture what your heart really desires. Its going to dictate the interpitation of it. And you will argue for that desire which your heart sees.

Peace.