I Don't know How To Attract Women

[Rational Gaze]

Personally, I love the location I'm at right now. Seems like a nice place to raise a family. Unfortunately, my problem is finding a woman who is willing to do that and put up with me and my eccentricities at the same time.

That was my point. It is not the location, but the people.

[Challenger Grim]

'Fraid I'm not familiar with that joke....

Well it originated (I think) with manufacturing.

"What's the bottom line of any product?
Make it quick, make it cheap, make it good. Pick two of those."

Thus, if you want something quick and cheap, it won't be any good.
If you want something quickly and high quality, it won't be cheap.
If you want something high quality and cheap, it won't be done quickly.

There's LOTS of variation.

I believe one goes.
Women: Pretty, Sane, Available - Pick 2.
Men: Handsome, Rich, Charming - Pick 2

etc etc. Hence, whenever you list 3 factors, it's a bit of a punchline to say "pick 2".

[nightbringer]

The trick to attracting women is to not be a jerk.

Or in fact, sometimes it is to BE a jerk.

Either way you have wonz.

[Rational Gaze]

Just to let you all know, I have found a woman/girl <insert other synonyms for female human here> who meets 'The Criteria^TM'. Let's just hope everything goes well, and that in my cold-blooded reptillian haste I do not anger/upset/repel/confuse/annoy them due to my profound and monumental social retardation.

There is also the slight possibility of being evaporated by lasers, so, if things go badly, it was nice knowing you all. That is all.

[Challenger Grim]

Just to let you all know, I have found a woman/girl <insert other synonyms for female human here> who meets 'The Criteria^TM'. Let's just hope everything goes well, and that in my cold-blooded reptillian haste I do not anger/upset/repel/confuse/annoy them due to my profound and monumental social retardation.

There is also the slight possibility of being evaporated by lasers, so, if things go badly, it was nice knowing you all. That is all.

I fully admit that this is MUCH easier said than done but trust me:
Just R-E-L-A-X.

Enjoy her company, have fun, worry about the future on your own time, just savor the moment when you're with her - that helps a lot.

[Challenger Grim]

Oh, and if worse comes to worse, you could just put up a sign.
http://failblog.org/2010/08/31/epic-...nted-sign-win/

[disciple100]

5 tips that actually appear to be somewhat helpful.

http://yahoo.match.com/y/article.asp...annerID=709885

How did it turn out, by the way?

[Epoetker]

Reviewing those...execrable tips....

Lesson #1: Assume the answer is yes
Have you ever been sold a product before? Hair tonic, a car, bathroom tile? I can guarantee you that the salesperson didn’t pitch you by saying, “Um, excuse me… I hate to bother you… would you be interested in… I mean, probably not, but—” No! Any salesman worth his commission is not just selling confidence in his product, but confidence in himself. “Confidence says I’m bright, I’m likeable, women have liked me in the past, I’m comfortable in my own skin,” says Victor, 38, a real estate broker. “Since she has to make a decision on the spot, confidence through nonverbal communication makes the best impression.” You can even “fake it ’til you make it” through these two very simple means: Smile and maintain eye contact. And remember: If you don’t know that you’re worth talking to, how would she know?

Assuming the answer is yes is a one-way ticket to hurtsville. Plausible deniability is the central conceit of all females concerning relationships. Assume she's always in a 'maybe' mood unless her boyfriend is right there and physically attached. Effective sales do not simply "assume the answer is yes" at the outset, they carefully ask a lot of other 'yes' questions leading up to the final 'yes.'

The last bit is actually good advice for a guy who's used to smiling. But, like dancing, unless a guy is really good at it, it's inadvisable and a dead giveaway to your intentions. If you're smiling, keep it small, and keep it plausibly not directed at her. Same with eye contact-don't stare into her eyes unless you're already in something resembling a relationship. Aspergery people shouldn't have too much trouble with that.

One must have a job in retail or sales for at least a few months before one can get a reliably fake smile. Or just any job where you have to deal with a lot of people in a short span of time. But take a door-to-door sales job for a couple months and I absolutely guarantee your interpersonal confidence and ability to push through rejection will improve.

Lesson #2: It’s not about you
I’m out at a big Hollywood scene with beautiful people. It’s getting late, towards the end of the night, and I ask my buddy Terrance which woman he’s got his eye on. He points to an attractive brunette talking to a cute blonde across the courtyard. Slightly bemused, I tell him that I will make the introduction. As I stride over, I rationalize that if my approach doesn’t go well, she’s not really rejecting me, but rather, Terrance. I know this isn’t true, but it gets me going.

I arrive while the women are in mid-conversation. I say nothing for a few seconds and when they both look at me, I chime in: “You guys just keep talking. I’ll interrupt when I’ve got something interesting to contribute.” And that was it. It wasn’t a line. It wasn’t planned. It just happened. After three minutes, Terrance came over, I made the introductions, and we both got phone numbers. The moral of the story? Playing my little conversational trick in all pick-up situations can be really helpful. Just ask any married friend how easy it is to talk with women when you know that there are no stakes involved. If it’s not about you, you can’t possibly fail.

Oh lordy, lordy, lordy, no. This is the fastest way into the friend/slave zone I've ever seen. If you like that sort of thing, then by all means, do it!

Take it from the ones who actually get women to chase them-negging and qualification are the sine qua non of getting actual interest from women.

Example my own: When a certain pretty Iranian women whom I barely knew was leaving our department, they passed around the certificate of here-chievment for all of us to sign. I signed it 'To Mrs. Jane Doe, the second-cutest (SPECIFIC JOB CATEGORY REDACTED) I've seen.' (All negs are plausibly deniable and generally bereft of hard description. Girls are going to talk that way to you, it's only natural you talk that way to them.)

And like clockwork, the other female techs started surreptitiously asking me who I thought was the cutest. And I kept giving them runaround answers. They kept asking. I kept evading. Thus making them pursue me, not making me pursue them. I led them into other topics of my choosing, and they were happy to go there, because they were searching for what made my logic tick. Virtuous cycle of interest.

It [b]is[b/] about you, because you're the one doing the judging! You're the one with the standard, not them! If they had one, they'd have already connected themselves to him, rather than just slumming it for whoever comes by! And most importantly, you're the one with the most to lose, financially and socially, if you make the wrong choice! (Yes, this attitude will help you out considerably.)

Lesson #3: There’s power in numbers
Believe it or not, three is better than one. When you approach a woman who is by herself, she knows that you’re hitting on her based solely on your attraction to her. This increases the pressure in a way that doesn’t always make for a comfortable situation. That’s why the safest way to meet a woman is to approach her in a crowd of her friends. Now there’s no pressure, because nobody knows who you’re hitting on, and you can just be the friendly guy who’s chatting with everybody. “If you’re charming, funny or bright,” says Charles, 36, “she might find herself interested in you before you’ve expressed interest in her.” This tilts things in your favor, even to the point where you might be in control. “By charming her friends and getting their approval, the one you like will be that much more open when you ask her out,” adds Charles.

There IS power in numbers-all on the women's side! Women will shamelessly use their friends as shield satellites, and when there's no pressure on you to hit on them, there's no pressure on her fat or ugly friends (and there are ALWAYS fat or ugly friends; women keep them around whenever possible to make themselves look better) to not go after you with all the venom of their previous rejections.

Now, you should talk to everybody. But at your stage, I'd stick with 'getting to know the social circle.' Better yet, be boring enough to slip through the hag qualification radar and then get the information or make a pass on your primary targets when their usual defenses are down. And if you have to approach a group, practice it with a group of guys so the targeting isn't focused on you and you can learn from the guy who's good at shooting down BS tests.

Lesson #4: It’s just that easy
If you ever doubt how simple it can be to meet a woman, this story should inspire you: I was at a party with some close friends and saw an acquaintance across the room. Late 30s, attractive, friendly, likeable. We’d met probably four times before through a mutual friend who was also at the party. When our eyes met, I smiled at her. She smiled back. Because it was a large and crowded room, I put out my index finger and beckoned her to come over to me. She sort of did a double take, smiled even more broadly and came right over.

“Hi,” I said, warmly.
“Hi,” she said, blankly. Then it hit me.
“You have no idea who I am,” I said.
“None whatsoever,” she replied.
“It’s Evan. Evan Katz.”
“Oh, yes — we’ve met! You cut your hair. I didn’t even recognize you.” She gave me a hug. But I had one more important question to ask her before we continued talking.
“Is it really that easy to get a woman to talk to you… just by calling her over with your finger?”
She took a second to consider the evidence and replied, “Apparently, it is.”

So there you have it. We men have more power than we even realized.

Late 30s? In her desperate cougar straits with her biological clock ticking madly and her childbearing capacity almost completely spent? Of course those are easy! Too easy! And most often highly inadvisable for any man who wants to keep whatever's left of his paycheck!

But making her come to you is definitely alpha behavior. Try it on the younger ones first, though.

Lesson #5: The outcome doesn’t matter
Maybe you’re not her type. Maybe she’s just out of a relationship. Maybe she’s having troubles at work. Maybe she’s not perceptive enough to recognize your worth. You never know why someone may not be interested in you. Truthfully, it doesn’t matter. It’s more diminishing to your self-esteem to let fear run your life than it is to get rejected. Here’s one story below that showcases this in a big way.

So I was in the checkout line at the grocery store, and I was waiting for a woman with 400 coupons. In the meantime, I was talking to the tall, raven-haired cutie behind me. We were making jokes, laughing, passing the time. All in all, a very pleasant five minutes of my life. The coupon lady finished up. I paid for my stuff, said goodbye to my new friend and rolled my cart out the door.

The second I hit the fresh air, I was kicking myself: Dummy! Why didn’t you ask for her phone number? Because I got all embarrassed what with the other people in line and the woman swiping my bar codes. Because of all the other reasons that nice guys wimp out. I decided that this would not do. I was going to wait until she came out of the supermarket and ask her out. And that’s what I did.

“Hey, it was a lot of fun meeting you in there,” I said to her as she emerged with her bags. “I was wondering if you’d like to grab lunch sometime.”

A big smile came across her face. “You are so cute and I couldn’t be more flattered, but I have a serious, live-in boyfriend. But I really want to thank you for asking. You totally made my day.” After she said goodbye, I went home, walking on air, so happy that I did it, instead of wishing I did it, like so many times before. It didn’t matter if she had a boyfriend or if she was lying or being polite or whatever — all that mattered was that I took a big swing at the plate and even didn’t hurt myself in the process.

The last piece of advice is actually pretty good, and a reminder that sluts, while not necessarily good marriage prospects, are excellent for practicing routines on. They are the random battles of life's RPG that prepare you for the boss you're actually interested in.

But if you let their approval be the source of your happiness, you're in for guaranteed slavery. Maybe you like that sort of thing, but I wouldn't aim there to begin with.
One consistently strong piece of good advice out of five isn't bad for a guy who's...at his peak earning potential...going after women who've already hit the wall and can only get worse, beauty-wise. This should not be your model while young.

But you, Mr. Rational, have an advantage-you're starting at the bottom of Omega Aspergeryness, and 'not caring about society at all' can look very much like 'aloof and indifferent alpha male' with less tweaking than you think.

[Epoetker]

Reviewing those...execrable tips....

Lesson #1: Assume the answer is yes
Have you ever been sold a product before? Hair tonic, a car, bathroom tile? I can guarantee you that the salesperson didn’t pitch you by saying, “Um, excuse me… I hate to bother you… would you be interested in… I mean, probably not, but—” No! Any salesman worth his commission is not just selling confidence in his product, but confidence in himself. “Confidence says I’m bright, I’m likeable, women have liked me in the past, I’m comfortable in my own skin,” says Victor, 38, a real estate broker. “Since she has to make a decision on the spot, confidence through nonverbal communication makes the best impression.” You can even “fake it ’til you make it” through these two very simple means: Smile and maintain eye contact. And remember: If you don’t know that you’re worth talking to, how would she know?

Assuming the answer is yes is a one-way ticket to hurtsville. Plausible deniability is the central conceit of all females concerning relationships. Assume she's always in a 'maybe' mood unless her boyfriend is right there and physically attached. Effective sales do not simply "assume the answer is yes" at the outset, they carefully ask a lot of other 'yes' questions leading up to the final 'yes.'

The last bit is actually good advice for a guy who's used to smiling. But, like dancing, unless a guy is really good at it, it's inadvisable and a dead giveaway to your intentions. If you're smiling, keep it small, and keep it plausibly not directed at her. Same with eye contact-don't stare into her eyes unless you're already in something resembling a relationship. Aspergery people shouldn't have too much trouble with that.

One must have a job in retail or sales for at least a few months before one can get a reliably fake smile. Or just any job where you have to deal with a lot of people in a short span of time. But take a door-to-door sales job for a couple months and I absolutely guarantee your interpersonal confidence and ability to push through rejection will improve.

Lesson #2: It’s not about you
I’m out at a big Hollywood scene with beautiful people. It’s getting late, towards the end of the night, and I ask my buddy Terrance which woman he’s got his eye on. He points to an attractive brunette talking to a cute blonde across the courtyard. Slightly bemused, I tell him that I will make the introduction. As I stride over, I rationalize that if my approach doesn’t go well, she’s not really rejecting me, but rather, Terrance. I know this isn’t true, but it gets me going.

I arrive while the women are in mid-conversation. I say nothing for a few seconds and when they both look at me, I chime in: “You guys just keep talking. I’ll interrupt when I’ve got something interesting to contribute.” And that was it. It wasn’t a line. It wasn’t planned. It just happened. After three minutes, Terrance came over, I made the introductions, and we both got phone numbers. The moral of the story? Playing my little conversational trick in all pick-up situations can be really helpful. Just ask any married friend how easy it is to talk with women when you know that there are no stakes involved. If it’s not about you, you can’t possibly fail.

Oh lordy, lordy, lordy, no. This is the fastest way into the friend/slave zone I've ever seen. If you like that sort of thing, then by all means, do it!

Take it from the ones who actually get women to chase them-negging and qualification are the sine qua non of getting actual interest from women.

Example my own: When a certain pretty Iranian women whom I barely knew was leaving our department, they passed around the certificate of here-chievment for all of us to sign. I signed it 'To Mrs. Jane Doe, the second-cutest (SPECIFIC JOB CATEGORY REDACTED) I've seen.' (All negs are plausibly deniable and generally bereft of hard description. Girls are going to talk that way to you, it's only natural you talk that way to them.)

And like clockwork, the other female techs started surreptitiously asking me who I thought was the cutest. And I kept giving them runaround answers. They kept asking. I kept evading. Thus making them pursue me, not making me pursue them. I led them into other topics of my choosing, and they were happy to go there, because they were searching for what made my logic tick. Virtuous cycle of interest.

It [b]is[b/] about you, because you're the one doing the judging! You're the one with the standard, not them! If they had one, they'd have already connected themselves to him, rather than just slumming it for whoever comes by! And most importantly, you're the one with the most to lose, financially and socially, if you make the wrong choice! (Yes, this attitude will help you out considerably.)

Lesson #3: There’s power in numbers
Believe it or not, three is better than one. When you approach a woman who is by herself, she knows that you’re hitting on her based solely on your attraction to her. This increases the pressure in a way that doesn’t always make for a comfortable situation. That’s why the safest way to meet a woman is to approach her in a crowd of her friends. Now there’s no pressure, because nobody knows who you’re hitting on, and you can just be the friendly guy who’s chatting with everybody. “If you’re charming, funny or bright,” says Charles, 36, “she might find herself interested in you before you’ve expressed interest in her.” This tilts things in your favor, even to the point where you might be in control. “By charming her friends and getting their approval, the one you like will be that much more open when you ask her out,” adds Charles.

There IS power in numbers-all on the women's side! Women will shamelessly use their friends as shield satellites, and when there's no pressure on you to hit on them, there's no pressure on her fat or ugly friends (and there are ALWAYS fat or ugly friends; women keep them around whenever possible to make themselves look better) to not go after you with all the venom of their previous rejections.

Now, you should talk to everybody. But at your stage, I'd stick with 'getting to know the social circle.' Better yet, be boring enough to slip through the hag qualification radar and then get the information or make a pass on your primary targets when their usual defenses are down. And if you have to approach a group, practice it with a group of guys so the targeting isn't focused on you and you can learn from the guy who's good at shooting down BS tests.

Lesson #4: It’s just that easy
If you ever doubt how simple it can be to meet a woman, this story should inspire you: I was at a party with some close friends and saw an acquaintance across the room. Late 30s, attractive, friendly, likeable. We’d met probably four times before through a mutual friend who was also at the party. When our eyes met, I smiled at her. She smiled back. Because it was a large and crowded room, I put out my index finger and beckoned her to come over to me. She sort of did a double take, smiled even more broadly and came right over.

“Hi,” I said, warmly.
“Hi,” she said, blankly. Then it hit me.
“You have no idea who I am,” I said.
“None whatsoever,” she replied.
“It’s Evan. Evan Katz.”
“Oh, yes — we’ve met! You cut your hair. I didn’t even recognize you.” She gave me a hug. But I had one more important question to ask her before we continued talking.
“Is it really that easy to get a woman to talk to you… just by calling her over with your finger?”
She took a second to consider the evidence and replied, “Apparently, it is.”

So there you have it. We men have more power than we even realized.

Late 30s? In her desperate cougar straits with her biological clock ticking madly and her childbearing capacity almost completely spent? Of course those are easy! Too easy! And most often highly inadvisable for any man who wants to keep whatever's left of his paycheck!

But making her come to you is definitely alpha behavior. Try it on the younger ones first, though.

Lesson #5: The outcome doesn’t matter
Maybe you’re not her type. Maybe she’s just out of a relationship. Maybe she’s having troubles at work. Maybe she’s not perceptive enough to recognize your worth. You never know why someone may not be interested in you. Truthfully, it doesn’t matter. It’s more diminishing to your self-esteem to let fear run your life than it is to get rejected. Here’s one story below that showcases this in a big way.

So I was in the checkout line at the grocery store, and I was waiting for a woman with 400 coupons. In the meantime, I was talking to the tall, raven-haired cutie behind me. We were making jokes, laughing, passing the time. All in all, a very pleasant five minutes of my life. The coupon lady finished up. I paid for my stuff, said goodbye to my new friend and rolled my cart out the door.

The second I hit the fresh air, I was kicking myself: Dummy! Why didn’t you ask for her phone number? Because I got all embarrassed what with the other people in line and the woman swiping my bar codes. Because of all the other reasons that nice guys wimp out. I decided that this would not do. I was going to wait until she came out of the supermarket and ask her out. And that’s what I did.

“Hey, it was a lot of fun meeting you in there,” I said to her as she emerged with her bags. “I was wondering if you’d like to grab lunch sometime.”

A big smile came across her face. “You are so cute and I couldn’t be more flattered, but I have a serious, live-in boyfriend. But I really want to thank you for asking. You totally made my day.” After she said goodbye, I went home, walking on air, so happy that I did it, instead of wishing I did it, like so many times before. It didn’t matter if she had a boyfriend or if she was lying or being polite or whatever — all that mattered was that I took a big swing at the plate and even didn’t hurt myself in the process.

The last piece of advice is actually pretty good, and a reminder that sluts, while not necessarily good marriage prospects, are excellent for practicing routines on. They are the random battles of life's RPG that prepare you for the boss you're actually interested in.

But if you let their approval be the source of your happiness, you're in for guaranteed slavery. Maybe you like that sort of thing, but I wouldn't aim there to begin with.
One consistently strong piece of good advice out of five isn't bad for a guy who's...at his peak earning potential...going after women who've already hit the wall and can only get worse, beauty-wise. This should not be your model while young.

But you, Mr. Rational, have an advantage-you're starting at the bottom of Omega Aspergeryness, and 'not caring about society at all' can look very much like 'aloof and indifferent alpha male' with less tweaking than you think.

[Darth Ovious]

Reviewing those...execrable tips....



Assuming the answer is yes is a one-way ticket to hurtsville. Plausible deniability is the central conceit of all females concerning relationships. Assume she's always in a 'maybe' mood unless her boyfriend is right there and physically attached. Effective sales do not simply "assume the answer is yes" at the outset, they carefully ask a lot of other 'yes' questions leading up to the final 'yes.'

The last bit is actually good advice for a guy who's used to smiling. But, like dancing, unless a guy is really good at it, it's inadvisable and a dead giveaway to your intentions. If you're smiling, keep it small, and keep it plausibly not directed at her. Same with eye contact-don't stare into her eyes unless you're already in something resembling a relationship. Aspergery people shouldn't have too much trouble with that.

One must have a job in retail or sales for at least a few months before one can get a reliably fake smile. Or just any job where you have to deal with a lot of people in a short span of time. But take a door-to-door sales job for a couple months and I absolutely guarantee your interpersonal confidence and ability to push through rejection will improve.

I'll chime in since you're not exactly known for your likable nature on these boards. Just adding my two cents as well as some credibility.

Never assume yes, but you should be confident enough to know that the answer should be yes. Confidence is key here. When talking to a girl sometimes it's not what you say but how how you say it that counts, and body language is part of that.

As for eye contact, you need to obey what is known as the 3 second rule. When eye contact has been established then if you are going to talk to the girl then you need to make your way over in 3 seconds of doing so. Don't hang around and don't wait.

Oh lordy, lordy, lordy, no. This is the fastest way into the friend/slave zone I've ever seen. If you like that sort of thing, then by all means, do it!

Take it from the ones who actually get women to chase them-negging and qualification are the sine qua non of getting actual interest from women.

It should be noted here that you don't disrespect the woman, you are just showing indifference. Negging is not about giving disrespect, it is about showing indifference towards a woman who would normally being getting "bigged up" by her achievements/good looks/whatever. What we are showing here is a "yeah I know that people think your big, but I'm not going to make a big fuss about it" attitude. It shows that you are not easily impressed and it takes more than these one track records to get into your books of interest.

For example good looking girls like it a lot better if you discuss their personalities with them while girls who are not so good looking might enjoy an occasional but not over the top compliments about their looks.

For example, if the girl you are after is pretty good looking then ask her what she considers to be her best personality traits that would interest you and then sit back and listen. Here you are doing the qualification instead of just handing it over to her. A good tip this, remember you are going to have to weigh her up and how she fits with you, you shouldn't just be taking it for it granted that she is right for you.

Also it should be noted here that getting into a girls "friend zone" is not a complete disaster. Yes, you will not get to be partners with a girl in this zone, but let it be known that being friends with girls will present it's own opportunities, i.e. They will introduce you to some of their female firends, some of which might be the kind of girl you are looking for. In fact, you should make female firends with this in mind but also because you can be friends with a girl and not be some pervert who always looks at girls in a sexual manner. It's important to note here that when you qualify for partnership, that does not necessarily mean you can't be firends with the girl. In fact, play down some of your relationships with girls by letting them know that you value them as a friend, it can work in your favor Afterwards the girl just might realize that she wants you more than a friend and she will begin to chase you instead (notice here that you did the qualification). Of course when such a thing happens it is then up to you to decide if a stronger relationship with this girl is what you want.

Example my own: When a certain pretty Iranian women whom I barely knew was leaving our department, they passed around the certificate of here-chievment for all of us to sign. I signed it 'To Mrs. Jane Doe, the second-cutest (SPECIFIC JOB CATEGORY REDACTED) I've seen.' (All negs are plausibly deniable and generally bereft of hard description. Girls are going to talk that way to you, it's only natural you talk that way to them.)

And like clockwork, the other female techs started surreptitiously asking me who I thought was the cutest. And I kept giving them runaround answers. They kept asking. I kept evading. Thus making them pursue me, not making me pursue them. I led them into other topics of my choosing, and they were happy to go there, because they were searching for what made my logic tick. Virtuous cycle of interest.

Pretty crafty, however quite dishonest at the same time. Remember it's not disrepect, but indifference that is key.

Remember the teaching of pick-up artist mystery. You want to leave the woman in a better off state than what you found her.

Judging by what I've seen by your words here though I'd say that you are not interested in doing that but just by getting "revenge" on women by giving them the runaround just to please yourself.

It [b]is[b/] about you, because you're the one doing the judging! You're the one with the standard, not them! If they had one, they'd have already connected themselves to him, rather than just slumming it for whoever comes by! And most importantly, you're the one with the most to lose, financially and socially, if you make the wrong choice! (Yes, this attitude will help you out considerably.)

I agree, you should have a standard and you should be weighing up the girl first before rushing in. It shows not only that you are not desparate but also shows you're not just waiting for anybody to come along. It's not judging per se but qualification, and what you are qualifying is if the girl is suited for you.

Remember, you are not aiming at disrespect here, but indifference first towards her while you qualify her as a potential partner.

There IS power in numbers-all on the women's side! Women will shamelessly use their friends as shield satellites, and when there's no pressure on you to hit on them, there's no pressure on her fat or ugly friends (and there are ALWAYS fat or ugly friends; women keep them around whenever possible to make themselves look better) to not go after you with all the venom of their previous rejections.

On the other hand, very pretty girls don't like it when they don't get the attention. You can use this to your advantage. After-all you are a guy who isn't desparate and you can easily have a conversation with a woman as just a friend. When you see a group of girls you can identify your target and then make preparations on how to ignore her when you interact with the group. When of course she starts to think "hey, whats going on here, I'm supposed to be the pretty one" and she starts to try to talk her way into conversation you can jokingly accuse her of trying to butt in and say "Wow, does you freind always interupt conversations like this?, how do you put up with her?" (remember, you are to say this in a joking manner, not as a serious statement, but the impact remains the same. You are reminding her that the world doesn't revolve around her and showing at the same time that it takes more than just good looks to get you interested). Once she shows interest in what is happening, you can then play the game above and ask her what it is about her personality wise that you would find interesting. If you like the answer then in a casual tone say "excellent, thanks"

Now, you should talk to everybody. But at your stage, I'd stick with 'getting to know the social circle.' Better yet, be boring enough to slip through the hag qualification radar and then get the information or make a pass on your primary targets when their usual defenses are down. And if you have to approach a group, practice it with a group of guys so the targeting isn't focused on you and you can learn from the guy who's good at shooting down BS tests.

Getting through the radar is the main thing. It's best to work out a way in which you enter conversation with the group in a natural manner i.e. in a way in which it doesn't look forced. Also best to note that you want quick conversation, especially in a night club. You are not there to hang around with this group of girls all night. Your target should be ten minutes and leave with a phone number. Once you have the phone number, you arrange a meet up with the girl at a later stage. So you need a quick but large impact, quick enough not to harrass them all night (women hate that) but an impressive enough impact to leave with a phone number, even if you ignore you target for the first 5 mins of your ten minute convo. When getting the phone number, make it look like you are just about to walk away but then turn back and say "Hey, give me your phone number and perhaps I'll give you a call sometime". Note here, that you are not asking whether you can have her phone number but you are pretty much being assertive enough to demand it although in a non-aggresive manner while at the same time you are saying that just perhaps you will give her a call (you are doing the qualification here). This doesn't the girl time to think of a reason why she shouldn't give you her number, so although it might not work 100% of the time it will work a lot more than the boring "Can I have your phone number?" cliche.

Late 30s? In her desperate cougar straits with her biological clock ticking madly and her childbearing capacity almost completely spent? Of course those are easy! Too easy! And most often highly inadvisable for any man who wants to keep whatever's left of his paycheck!

But making her come to you is definitely alpha behavior. Try it on the younger ones first, though.

Tsk, tsk, the first part is a bit disrespectful towards the older generation of women, and I wouldn't say that women in their 30's are too old to date. No offence, but a guy should look for a woman he likes and wants, not someone he can just "hump and dump". You may want to do that youself but we are not all like you. The aim of the game is not to be disrespectful, but indifferent enough to show you are not easily impressed. You only get away with that show of tone above because too many guys show too desparate an attitude.

The last piece of advice is actually pretty good, and a reminder that sluts, while not necessarily good marriage prospects, are excellent for practicing routines on. They are the random battles of life's RPG that prepare you for the boss you're actually interested in.

But if you let their approval be the source of your happiness, you're in for guaranteed slavery. Maybe you like that sort of thing, but I wouldn't aim there to begin with.
One consistently strong piece of good advice out of five isn't bad for a guy who's...at his peak earning potential...going after women who've already hit the wall and can only get worse, beauty-wise. This should not be your model while young.

Of course looks at what interest you but that isn't to say that some us don't like a bit of personality to go along with the looks.

However yes, I agree to the previous bit in which it says that your happiness should not be the source of a woman's approval but then as a Christian you should already know this and it's approval from God that you seek. You have God's love and you want to do what's right by him. You already have your standards and you shouldn't compromise them for anyone, including Epoetker here.

But you, Mr. Rational, have an advantage-you're starting at the bottom of Omega Aspergeryness, and 'not caring about society at all' can look very much like 'aloof and indifferent alpha male' with less tweaking than you think.

Ah yes, here it is. Finally the word indifferent has been mentioned after-all.

Overall what the main problem with guys is that they don't do qualification, they skip it completely, but it is an important aspect of relationships. You want to make sure the girl you are choosing is right for you. Your not just going out with her because nobody else is available. Problem is some guys take advantage of all this once they learn it. They will give the impression that they are qualifying etc but in all heart they don't have any interest in qualifying at all but just want to get the woman into bed. Not naming names here and I won't judge Epoetker, because in all honesty I don't really know him. He might put up a big rant that appears to be sexist but you never know. One day he will find that woman that he can love and is able to forsake all others for.

[Darth Executor]

*gag*

[franktalk]

It seems to me that changing the persona is sometimes impossible for some people. From the number of posts and their honesty I think the world is filled with people who would help. What you need is a bridge. A buddy with the right personality to do the introductions and what not. They are out there, in fact you probably know some right now. But you must be brutally honest about yourself and what you want. You may want something that is not achievable. No one has the perfect mate. You want someone to talk to and will understand what you are saying, you want someone that you respect enough to listen to what she says. Past that all things you can learn. Shared interest can be learned so it is not a big deal.

Good luck

[Darth Ovious]

It seems to me that changing the persona is sometimes impossible for some people.

I disagree. The whole pick-up artist industry is built on the precept that people can change, no matter who you are. I know it sounds bad but for Christianity it is good because it means we are right when we say that people can change themselves to become better people.

Also not to mention there are different schools of philosophy on this subject when it comes to attracting women. You can always find a school that fits you best and also it is a sliding scale, there is no success/failure dilemma, there are varying degrees of success and failure.

From the number of posts and their honesty I think the world is filled with people who would help. What you need is a bridge. A buddy with the right personality to do the introductions and what not. They are out there, in fact you probably know some right now.

Indeed, this is correct. Friends are a good way to meet new people, not just new women and like I said before if you have female friends they might introduce you to some of their female friends plus it also comes with a personal recommendation that you can be trusted and that that you are not some sort of wierdo. Women are more comfortable with men that they get introduced to through other friends than with random strangers. It isn't impossible to do the latter but it is harder.

But you must be brutally honest about yourself and what you want. You may want something that is not achievable. No one has the perfect mate. You want someone to talk to and will understand what you are saying, you want someone that you respect enough to listen to what she says. Past that all things you can learn. Shared interest can be learned so it is not a big deal.

[Rational Gaze]

Thanks for the advice guys, but I've accepted the fact that I am probably going to be single for the rest of my life awhile ago.

[disciple100]

Thanks for the advice guys, but I've accepted the fact that I am probably going to be single for the rest of my life awhile ago.

Don't count yourself out just yet, brother. Ever give thought to the idea that maybe your 'one and only girl' is in another country? Foreign ladies are the way to to go. Yeahhhhhhh.....