Christian Evangelism isn't a Political Party

[Adrift]

Is he though? Because I thought the whole point of Frankenstein was that he was NOT dead any more? You know, un-dead.

I say po-tay-to, you say po-tah-to. Let's just call the whole thing off.

[Meh Gerbil]

I wish I would have started a thread that went to 14 pages.

[Adrift]

I wish I would have started a thread that went to 14 pages.

If its any comfort, we've barely discussed the OP, so it's been sort've a bust as far as I'm concerned.

[guacamole]

If its any comfort, we've barely discussed the OP, so it's been sort've a bust as far as I'm concerned.

I tried sugar. I tried.

[Meh Gerbil]

If its any comfort, we've barely discussed the OP, so it's been sort've a bust as far as I'm concerned.

I'm all about style over substance.
Shut up, in advance.

You too, Sparko... guac.. etc.

[Jedidiah]

I think you know well that an infant, in normal circumstances, will develop awareness.

Before I could agree with this I would like some evidence that infants, even newborn, are not self aware. They certainly appear to be. If you deny this then I need a clear definition of how one can determine self awareness with out error.

[guacamole]

Before I could agree with this I would like some evidence that infants, even newborn, are not self aware. They certainly appear to be. If you deny this then I need a clear definition of how one can determine self awareness with out error.

Yeah, to be honest, I don't even know. It's not like we can just ask the infants, and it's not like Starlight and Tassman aren't being a bit loosey goosey with the term "awareness."

fwiw,
guacamole

[rogue06]

um yeah. That was not where I was going with my statement.

I meant that those who claim that no brain activity or self awareness (yet) means that abortion and infanticide is OK are not really interested in proving that babies in the womb or right after have consciousness or anything like that, they just want an excuse to kill the baby and not feel guilty. They plan on killing it either way, but if they can tell themselves that "oh well it doesn't think like me so it is not a person" then they can feel a little less guilty.

Dehumanizing the target group and portraying them as nothing but a burden was, at the risk of invoking Godwin's Law, exactly what the Nazis did with their eugenics program.

image4.jpg

The poster above roughly translates as: "This person suffering from hereditary defects costs the community 60,000 Reichsmark during his lifetime. Fellow German, that is your money, too" from the Office of Racial Policy's New People^[1]

While the above primarily made an economic argument the entire program revolved around portraying various groups (and not just ethnic and religious ones but the disabled as well) as less than human and therefore not to be afforded the same rights and protections that a human has.

By the late 1930s the Nazis employed propaganda movies designed to persuade the German public that those who had genetic infirmities were dangerous to the health of the nation and ought to be exterminated rather than kept alive as "neutered beings." In the beginning they utilized specially modified buses designed to allow engine exhaust into the passenger area to pick up patients and kill them while transporting them.












1. Nazi monthly publication of the Office of Racial Policy in Nazi Germany concerning racial policy.

[rogue06]

I'm all about style over substance.
Shut up, in advance.

You too, Sparko... guac.. etc.

Screen-Shot-2015-11-18-at-4.07.19-PM-1024x678.jpg

[Adrift]

at the risk of invoking Godwin's Law

Eh, go ahead and invoke it any time you want. It's a stupid made up internet "law" anyways. Why shouldn't people compare modern evils to the most atrocious ever known in recent Western history? I mean, they were committed within the lifetimes of our very own parents and grandparents, and it's a subject that just about everyone is familiar with. People who complain about it only do so cause they don't have better rebuttals. It's a cheap debate technique, and it should be pointed out as such.

[rogue06]

Eh, go ahead and invoke it any time you want. It's a stupid made up internet "law" anyways. Why shouldn't people compare modern evils to the most atrocious ever known in recent Western history? I mean, they were committed within the lifetimes of our very own parents and grandparents, and it's a subject that just about everyone is familiar with. People who complain about it only do so cause they don't have better rebuttals. It's a cheap debate technique, and it should be pointed out as such.

Accusations of someone/something being no different than the Nazis does get over done

[Adrift]

Accusations of someone/something being no different than the Nazis does get over done

Like I said, for good reason. It's immediately and universally recognizable...Hitler is the Mickey Mouse of evil. There's nothing wrong with using a great example, no matter how often it's invoked.

[Tassman]

um yeah. That was not where I was going with my statement.

Indeed! Where you were going was self-righteously condemning those faced with the difficult decision of whether or not to have an abortion, as is the woman’s right under certain defined conditions.

I meant that those who claim that no brain activity or self awareness (yet) means that abortion and infanticide is OK are not really interested in proving that babies in the womb or right after have consciousness or anything like that,

It is physically impossible for fetuses in the womb to have “consciousness” during their first trimester, which is when the vast majority of abortions are performed, because their EEG activity indicates that the necessary regular wave patterns are not present. Fetal brain activity does not begin to exhibit regular wave patterns until around week 25.

So, given this, what is your argument against abortion at this stage of development?

they just want an excuse to kill the baby and not feel guilty. They plan on killing it either way, but if they can tell themselves that "oh well it doesn't think like me so it is not a person" then they can feel a little less guilty.

Of course!!! Everyone wants an excuse to kill “their baby” and not feel guilty, how dare you spoil their fun.

[Sparko]

Indeed! Where you were going was self-righteously condemning those faced with the difficult decision of whether or not to have an abortion, as is the woman’s right under certain defined conditions.

No I wasn't but since you mention it. If the fetus is not a person why is is a difficult decision? If I have a tumor removed, I wouldn't call that a difficult decision. Are you admitting that the fetus is a person after all and that is why it is a difficult decision?

It is physically impossible for fetuses in the womb to have “consciousness” during their first trimester, which is when the vast majority of abortions are performed, because their EEG activity indicates that the necessary regular wave patterns are not present. Fetal brain activity does not begin to exhibit regular wave patterns until around week 25.


So, given this, what is your argument against abortion at this stage of development?

It is a human being. The woman's very own offspring.

Of course!!! Everyone wants an excuse to kill “their baby” and not feel guilty, how dare you spoil their fun.

Again, why do they feel guilty if it is not a person?

[Darth Executor]

Eh, go ahead and invoke it any time you want. It's a stupid made up internet "law" anyways. Why shouldn't people compare modern evils to the most atrocious ever known in recent Western history?

Well, for starters, that would be liberals, not Hitler.