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Christian Evangelism isn't a Political Party

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  • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
    The insensate fetus is a potential person, if not a person in actuality, so it’s a big decision for a woman to decide whether or not to terminate her pregnancy.



    Yes. Hence it’s a big decision for the woman to make. It's not for you to make it for her.



    See above.
    Nice attempt at a dodge. But if it is not yet a person, then there should be no reason to feel upset or it to be a hard decision. If the fact that it is even a "potential person" (your words) and it makes it a difficult decision, then that means that the fetus has value as a human being and just NOT killing it would mean it would have a normal life. That you are preventing an entire life from happening by killing a fetus. That you are killing a human being, a person.

    If a woman kills her teenager, she is not killing an adult human being, but she is preventing him from becoming an adult and having a life and his own children. If a woman kills an infant, she is not killing a teenager, but she is preventing him from even becoming a teenager or an adult. It is even more tragic because his life has barely begun. If a woman kills her fetus, it doesn't even get to become an infant, or a teenager or an adult. she has prevented his entire life on earth. It is the most tragic of all.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
      Liberalism embodies the altruistic values of the tribal unit.
      I cannot think of a social unit more devoid of liberal values than a tribe.
      How many Native Americans do you suppose sat around and did absolutely nothing all day while everyone else provided?

      Originally posted by Tassman View Post
      By “great purge” you presumably mean purging “them others”, i.e. those who not a part of your tribal unit...like Moses exterminating the Midianites, or Hitler exterminating non-Aryans.
      Unfortunately, this is not the case.
      Liberalism usually takes out the entire society before moving onto a new host.
      Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
        The good part about your bipolar disorder is that once in a while we get Mad Gerbil back.
        I only go after liberalism because I'm too intellectually lazy to go after something of substance.
        Most liberal arguments are on par with a child making fart bubbles in a soapy bath.
        Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101

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        • I beginning to feel like arguments over the personhood of the fetus are nonsensical. It seems to me the "feels bad" comes from the fact that the fetus is self-evidently a person, needing no justification for its protection. The logical contortions to prove otherwise are staggering.

          fwiw,
          guacamole
          "Down in the lowlands, where the water is deep,
          Hear my cry, hear my shout,
          Save me, save me"

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View Post
            I cannot think of a social unit more devoid of liberal values than a tribe.
            How many Native Americans do you suppose sat around and did absolutely nothing all day while everyone else provided? ...
            That's not liberalism; it's lazyism. No doubt, there are very many liberals who are indeed very lazy, intellectually, physically, or otherwise, but that's also true of conservatives and all other groups of people identified by such practically meaningless labels used especially in mostly stupid Internet 'discussions'.
            βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
            ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

            אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

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            • Originally posted by robrecht View Post
              That's not liberalism; it's lazyism. No doubt, there are very many liberals who are indeed very lazy, intellectually, physically, or otherwise, but that's also true of conservatives and all other groups of people identified by such practically meaningless labels used especially in mostly stupid Internet 'discussions'.
              Liberals certainly aren't lazy.
              I've never seen a group of people work so very hard to destroy others and rob them of their self-respect.

              Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101

              Comment


              • I would be all for lazyism, but right now I don't feel like doing it. Maybe tomorrow. Right now I am practicing procrastinationism.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by guacamole View Post
                  I beginning to feel like arguments over the personhood of the fetus are nonsensical. It seems to me the "feels bad" comes from the fact that the fetus is self-evidently a person, needing no justification for its protection. The logical contortions to prove otherwise are staggering.

                  fwiw,
                  guacamole
                  The problem with "self-evident" is that personhood is inherently arbitrary.



                  "Self-evident" is one of the easiest spotted red flags for any belief. It's tantamount to saying there's no actual basis.
                  I'm not here anymore.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                    William Lane Craig recently discussed an article about Brian McLaren called "breaking with Evangelicals" (I think this might be the article), and Dr. Craig makes some fantastic points that "Evangelical Christianity" is not a political movement.

                    I'd link the podcast, but I don't think it's on his website yet. However, here are some highlights where Dr. Craig points out that Evangelicalism is NOT a political movement. Something that a lot of skeptics (and even Christians) on this forum seem to be confused about.

                    Source: Brian McLaren Breaks up with Evangelicals

                    An Evangelical is theologically defined, an evangelical is someone who is committed to historic Christian orthodoxy: The deity of Christ, substitutionary atonement, the need for personal conversion, and faith in Christ, salvation by grace. These are the earmarks of Evangelical Christianity, and it would indeed be a matter of deep concern if he [McLaren] decided to walk away from Evangelical Christianity, but that's not what he means by the "Conservative Evangelical Project". As he says earlier in the article he became disenchanted with the political project to which Evangelicalism was giving it's soul.

                    . . .

                    He's not talking theology here, Kevin, he's talking about politics. And what he's describing for us in this article is why he's not politically conservative, but he's politically progressive. Now what I think what's unfortunate about that is that he thereby identifies Evangelical Christianity with a political movement or persuasion, and that's wrong. Evangelical Christianity is a theology and among Evangelicals there are those who are conservatives, others who are moderates, others who are progressives, and in ceasing to be a political conservative, he shouldn't pin the blame on Evangelicalism, or describe it as walking away from Evangelicalism. I think that's falling into the trap of those who see Evangelical Christianity as a kind of political movement, and that is very wrong, and something that we need to repudiate very forcefully. Evangelical Christianity is not a political movement.

                    . . .

                    The word Evangelical originated during, I think, during the late 1940s or so, when people like Billy Graham, Carl Henry, Harold Ockenga, others, wanted to distinguish themselves from the old line Fundamentalism of people like Carl McIntire for example. And they wanted to disassociate their Christian belief from the anti-intellectualism and cultural isolationism of Fundamentalism, but in terms of theological doctrine Evangelicals have been committed to the same theological fundamentals as Fundamentalism. What's odd about this, is according to what I've read at least, in the popular perception of our culture the word "Evangelical" has now become just as hated a term as "Fundamentalism" was, and maybe perhaps more so, so that in the long run changing terminology doesn't really work, uh, these terms get degraded after several decades of use, and you find yourself branded with the same sort of bigotry and regressive thinking that you wanted to disassociate yourself from.

                    © Copyright Original Source



                    Craig points out that instead one could point out that they're simply an orthodox Christian, but of course that invites confusion in thinking that one is Orthodox (big O). It might be simpler to say that one is just a "Christian".
                    So WLC is arguing that evangelicalism should stay out of politics? And stick to spirituality/religion?
                    Blog: Atheism and the City

                    If your whole worldview rests on a particular claim being true, you damn well better have evidence for it. You should have tons of evidence.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by The Thinker View Post
                      So WLC is arguing that evangelicalism should stay out of politics? And stick to spirituality/religion?
                      Not at all. He's saying exactly what he's saying, which is that Evangelicalism is not a political party, it's a theological worldview. Of course, your theological worldview may influence your politics, but they are not the same. There are both conservatives and liberals who claim to be Evangelical. There are those who lean right and those that lean left who claim to be Evangelical. There are even those who remain largely apolitical who also claim to be Evangelical.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Carrikature View Post
                        The problem with "self-evident" is that personhood is inherently arbitrary.



                        "Self-evident" is one of the easiest spotted red flags for any belief. It's tantamount to saying there's no actual basis.
                        Is there anything, in your opinion, that can be said to be self-evident?

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View Post
                          Liberals certainly aren't lazy.
                          I've never seen a group of people work so very hard to destroy others and rob them of their self-respect.

                          Without watching the video I feel sorry for that woman. The sexual revolution destroyed her. She's almost certainly incapable of self control (no matter how many contorted empowerment messages feminists give her) and stands no chance in this world. IMO liberals would be several degrees more respectable if they just advocated for sterilizing the chronically poor like taoist does.
                          "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

                          There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View Post
                            Liberals certainly aren't lazy.
                            I've never seen a group of people work so very hard to destroy others and rob them of their self-respect.

                            Abortion or birth control could have dramatically prevented that problem.
                            Blog: Atheism and the City

                            If your whole worldview rests on a particular claim being true, you damn well better have evidence for it. You should have tons of evidence.

                            Comment


                            • There is still no reason given to suspect that infants (including newborn) are not self aware.
                              Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by The Thinker View Post
                                Abortion or birth control could have dramatically prevented that problem.
                                They objectively could not because they are both widely available and didn't.
                                "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

                                There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

                                Comment

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