Originally posted by Jedidiah
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Is it legal because the government says so?
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“He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostAll of which is irrelevant given that every ruling since the case of Lemon v. Kurtzman has confirmed, in the view of the highest court in the land, that the Constitution effectively created a separation of church and state.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostYes it is, by definition. It is the role of the Supreme to interpret the Constitution and Jefferson's reference to a wall of separation between Church and State has been cited repeatedly by the U.S. Supreme Court.Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?
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Originally posted by seer View PostLemon, is not the Constitution and could easily be overturned.Blog: Atheism and the City
If your whole worldview rests on a particular claim being true, you damn well better have evidence for it. You should have tons of evidence.
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Originally posted by Jedidiah View PostStill answering the question you would prefer I had asked. I asked what Jefferson's view was.Blog: Atheism and the City
If your whole worldview rests on a particular claim being true, you damn well better have evidence for it. You should have tons of evidence.
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Originally posted by The Thinker View PostJefferson's view was that government and religion should be separate. Hence the wall between them.
This is the wall he wrote of, why are you guys so afraid of that?Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?
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Originally posted by Jedidiah View PostStill answering the question you would prefer I had asked. I asked what Jefferson's view was.“He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.
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Originally posted by Jedidiah View PostJefferson's view was just what he said, the " . . . legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, . . . "
This is the wall he wrote of, why are you guys so afraid of that?“He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostNo the “wall” is what divides those freely exercising their religion, to which they’re entitled, from impinging upon the exercise of the business of state. The “free exercise of religion” does not mean carte blanche to run a theocracy.
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Originally posted by Jedidiah View PostJefferson's view was just what he said, the " . . . legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, . . . "
This is the wall he wrote of, why are you guys so afraid of that?Blog: Atheism and the City
If your whole worldview rests on a particular claim being true, you damn well better have evidence for it. You should have tons of evidence.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostIt says nothing about stopping religion from interfering with the state, It clearly says that the state can't interfere with religion.“He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostThat's simply wrong. Jefferson's metaphor of a wall of separation clearly refers to Church and State being kept separate with neither impinging upon the other. This principle has been cited repeatedly by the U.S. Supreme Court in its rulings.
Here is the letter:
To messers. Nehemiah Dodge, Ephraim Robbins, & Stephen S. Nelson, a committee of the Danbury Baptist association in the state of Connecticut.
Gentlemen
The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful and zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, & in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more and more pleasing.
Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.
I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem.
Th Jefferson
Jan. 1. 1802.
Please point out where he says that religion cannot interfere with the state. Or where it says that in the constitution.
And what he wrote them really doesn't matter. What is in the constitution matters. There is no "wall" there. There is just an amendment that says the state cannot establish a religion or make any laws against anyone's free exercise of their religion. That's it. Period. You can imagine all you want, but the law is in the constitution not your mind, or what you imagine was in Jefferson's mind. Jefferson was not the arbiter of the law. Even if that is what he meant, it doesn't matter because that is not what was written into the constitution. He was only one man among many to compile the constitution. It was a group effort.Last edited by Sparko; 03-23-2017, 07:43 AM.
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostThat's simply wrong. Jefferson's metaphor of a wall of separation clearly refers to Church and State being kept separate with neither impinging upon the other. This principle has been cited repeatedly by the U.S. Supreme Court in its rulings.Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?
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Originally posted by Carrikature View PostI'm not sure I understand how anyone thinks we'll get one without the other.Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?
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