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William Borden

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  • #16
    We tend to think the way we are is the way we should be, but maybe he was the way we should be?
    I use to teach “we (Christians) all sin lots of times and cannot keep from it, but we are constantly being washed by the blood of Christ, so we are without sin in that case. That was before I met a group of Christians that could not afford to sin even once, because it could result in being beaten to death. They needed power way beyond human ability.

    My experience went like this:
    I got thrown into (volunteered if needed) with the youth (13-21 age) prisoners program teaching Bible (one hour on Sunday morning to a group of 14 with three other Christians teaching groups of 14) and taught three groups of “Christians”. The first group is guys (going to school it is called) that start out their stay causing trouble getting thrown in the tank. Then they start increasingly attending the services, carrying their Bible, being nice, and say they are Christians. By the time the parole board meets they have this glowing report showing continued improvement tied to their increased spirituality and are released. These guys still carry weapons, are members of a gang, and every prisoner know they just “went to school” to get out. The second group were converted before they went to prison (grandma conversions), but watch raunchy TV, hang with a loss group, laugh at off colored jokes, are not always talking about Jesus and are not trying to convert others. Their first day in prison the snitches see this, the snitches talk to the Bulls that approach these “Christians” saying you are not a Christian (doing everything Christ would do) and make them a slave (often sexual) or at best gang member. They still come to Bible study on Sunday so they can tell Granny (who visits them Sunday afternoon) what they learned, but they are slaves (sometimes sexually) to some bull. The third group is fanatical, they stick close to each other, they: study, pray, witness to everyone, and avoid even a hint of insincerity that the snitches could see. They carry no weapons, but step between those that are being beaten especially in persecution. This group had grown over the last 3 years from just a couple of guys to now 42, but it came at a high price. Each convert had on the day he was baptized given up the protection of his gang membership, turned over his weapons along with all his possessions (the gang owns everything including them), they were beaten if not by the gang they left, then by other gangs looking for payback and then they were watch constantly looking for any sign the snitches might interpret as weakness (anything less than what Christ would do in the situation, would result in a beating and it could be to death). There is absolutely no privacy and these Christians never wanted to be found alone. They slept in barracks where at least one stayed awake all night praying over them so they could sleep without the fear of being smashed in the head in the middle of the night. These guys believed and counted on power from the Holy Spirit, I did not know existed. They come battered and bruised each week hungry for some real meaningful Christ like lesson that goes beyond their group study of 40+hours that week on the same subject, which I could not provide. They mostly helped me with my poor example of Christianity and lack of knowledge and lack of wisdom. They mentored me even though they were only Christian for a few months, but I was a poor disciple and could not keep up with them.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by bling View Post
      We tend to think the way we are is the way we should be, but maybe he was the way we should be?
      I use to teach “we (Christians) all sin lots of times and cannot keep from it, but we are constantly being washed by the blood of Christ, so we are without sin in that case. That was before I met a group of Christians that could not afford to sin even once, because it could result in being beaten to death. They needed power way beyond human ability.

      My experience went like this:
      I got thrown into (volunteered if needed) with the youth (13-21 age) prisoners program teaching Bible (one hour on Sunday morning to a group of 14 with three other Christians teaching groups of 14) and taught three groups of “Christians”. The first group is guys (going to school it is called) that start out their stay causing trouble getting thrown in the tank. Then they start increasingly attending the services, carrying their Bible, being nice, and say they are Christians. By the time the parole board meets they have this glowing report showing continued improvement tied to their increased spirituality and are released. These guys still carry weapons, are members of a gang, and every prisoner know they just “went to school” to get out. The second group were converted before they went to prison (grandma conversions), but watch raunchy TV, hang with a loss group, laugh at off colored jokes, are not always talking about Jesus and are not trying to convert others. Their first day in prison the snitches see this, the snitches talk to the Bulls that approach these “Christians” saying you are not a Christian (doing everything Christ would do) and make them a slave (often sexual) or at best gang member. They still come to Bible study on Sunday so they can tell Granny (who visits them Sunday afternoon) what they learned, but they are slaves (sometimes sexually) to some bull. The third group is fanatical, they stick close to each other, they: study, pray, witness to everyone, and avoid even a hint of insincerity that the snitches could see. They carry no weapons, but step between those that are being beaten especially in persecution. This group had grown over the last 3 years from just a couple of guys to now 42, but it came at a high price. Each convert had on the day he was baptized given up the protection of his gang membership, turned over his weapons along with all his possessions (the gang owns everything including them), they were beaten if not by the gang they left, then by other gangs looking for payback and then they were watch constantly looking for any sign the snitches might interpret as weakness (anything less than what Christ would do in the situation, would result in a beating and it could be to death). There is absolutely no privacy and these Christians never wanted to be found alone. They slept in barracks where at least one stayed awake all night praying over them so they could sleep without the fear of being smashed in the head in the middle of the night. These guys believed and counted on power from the Holy Spirit, I did not know existed. They come battered and bruised each week hungry for some real meaningful Christ like lesson that goes beyond their group study of 40+hours that week on the same subject, which I could not provide. They mostly helped me with my poor example of Christianity and lack of knowledge and lack of wisdom. They mentored me even though they were only Christian for a few months, but I was a poor disciple and could not keep up with them.
      It would be interesting to see if the fanaticism of these young men could be sustained in the context of the free world -- growing up and attending university or seminary, for example. I think for some people, their devotion and/or zealousness is directly proportionate to the duress that they are under. I am not saying that is necessarily the case, but it certainly could be -- especially for young, newly Christian men in such a stressful context. Mr. Borden on the other hand seemed to be the genuine article, but at the end of the day only God knows the heart of man.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Scrawly View Post
        It would be interesting to see if the fanaticism of these young men could be sustained in the context of the free world -- growing up and attending university or seminary, for example. I think for some people, their devotion and/or zealousness is directly proportionate to the duress that they are under. I am not saying that is necessarily the case, but it certainly could be -- especially for young, newly Christian men in such a stressful context. Mr. Borden on the other hand seemed to be the genuine article, but at the end of the day only God knows the heart of man.
        You are right to some degree. I personally did not want some to get out as soon as they did get out, because they had to go back to the cities they were from and be paroled there and in those cities there was no churches with an ex-prisoner Christian program. Some that stayed in Raleigh, N.C. did well and others scattered and were discouraged by the hypocrisy in their local churches and I lost tough. But a few made a difference Bill Searcy when back to Rocky Mount N.C. where there was only a small Church of Christ congregation. he was known as a huge trouble maker and people did not trust him. He went back to the high school he was thrown out of to finish his last 2 years. Three years later he is the preacher in that same little congregation to standing room only crowds, he had all A's his senior year and was heading off to Harding College to study ministry.
        He went on to get a PHD and be a missionary.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Scrawly View Post
          Thanks for your opinion, TM. Although, I think it's important, when investigating a matter, to make a sharp distinction between what we want to be true and what is in fact true. Or conversely, what we do not want to be true, yet what is true regardless. In our pursuit for truth we ought not let our desires override proper examination of the evidence.
          I fully agree we need to find out what is true not what we want to be true. When I read your OP, I interpreted it as you having come to a conclusion.

          Originally posted by Scrawly View Post
          In analyzing Mr. Borden's story I came across this interesting piece of information: "..the fact that what Borden is perhaps most known for—the inspirational quote that he is reputed to have written into his personal Bible, “No reserves. No Retreats. No Regrets”—has not been found by historians or biographers...is the central anecdote of Borden’s life a case of hagiography?"(i)

          So, can we really know for certain that Mr. Borden displayed such heroic conviction, even in his dying moments? Or was the reality on his deathbed much less idealistic and far more human? I think we need to be more comfortable, in such cases, with saying "I don't know, but I think God does".

          In regards to the question of what fueled Mr. Borden's life? I am happy to say that his faith motivated, sustained, and energized him to achieve greatness and lasting impact despite his short time on earth. Was the risen Christ empowering him and directing his life?...I hope so.

          Source: (i): http://www.christianitytoday.com/his...am-borden.html
          From one work, we probably can't make reliable conclusions which follows from the Biblical standard of two or more witnesses to establish a matter. So yes, we have to be comfortable with knowing that God knows.

          Now a hagiography is probably not a fully reliable source. The author's intend is to inspire the reader to live a life more directed to God. So parts could be a little suspect. On the other hand, where did the author get the quote from? If he made it up, it's still a good quote.

          I agree. Hopefully it was the risen Christ empowering even if his actual life wasn't as heroic as portrayed.
          "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

          "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Obsidian View Post
            During college the guy spent time trying to 'evangelize' (I still don't know exactly what that meant to him) and rehabilitate the poor and/or obnoxious people in his society. He chose to forego a lucrative career in business (selling milk) and instead became a missionary. He died of an unusual disease before even accomplishing anything as a missionary. Contrary to what you wrote above, elsewhere I have seen that he gave away $1 million in his last will and testament, so it does not appear that he gave all his money away in his lifetime. It's perhaps not the path that I would have preferred, but I don't find anything all that extraordinary or insane about him.
            He sounds admirable, and worthy of imitation. Rather like C. T. Studd or George Muller. An unusual degree of Christian heroism is bound to look "extreme" to those of us too spiritually weak to show it. The people to worry about, IMO, are those of us who are not capable of that degree of generosity and sacrifice. I wish a lot more of us were like that.
            Last edited by Rushing Jaws; 06-15-2017, 02:44 AM.

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