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So Healthcare thing failed.

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  • So Healthcare thing failed.

    Honestly I just want the debates and Bernie Sanders monologs to stop.
    sigpic

  • #2
    Of course it failed. Pretty much everything Trump does fails.

    His casinos failed. His airline failed. His university failed.

    His Muslim ban has failed. His healthcare has failed. His military strike in Yemen failed. Having Mexico pay for the wall has failed.

    The guy's just a loser.


    P.S. What's a "Bernie Sanders monolog" and why do they need to stop? And why are you listening to them if you don't like them?
    "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
    "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
    "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

    Comment


    • #3
      Not my fault my family plays CNN all the time.
      sigpic

      Comment


      • #4
        Yet look at all the businesses trump runs that are successful.

        You know I'm curious. My solution to the Healthcare debacle is to break up the insurance monopoly allowing more private insurance and competition. Also might as well try to get the FDA to stop being so restrictive on epi pens. Quotas are hurting us.

        So starlight what's your plan? Afterall we all want to change the world.
        sigpic

        Comment


        • #5
          Lord Trump's Royal Decree or else the end of the world failed.
          Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
          Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
          But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

          go with the flow the river knows . . .

          Frank

          I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by TheWall View Post
            Yet look at all the businesses trump runs that are successful.
            It's not clear that they are. He has a history of taking out huge loans and then going bankrupt. His businesses that we can see the finances of are running at losses (the finances of his 3 British golf-courses are public by British law). Presumably the rest of his businesses are too which is why he's refused to release his tax returns, and presumably he doesn't want people to know the extent to which he's had to seek loans from dubious Saudi and Russian sources to prop up his business losses.

            So starlight what's your plan?
            Healthcare's a solved problem in my country. 76 years ago, the government started providing healthcare for everyone paid for out of taxes. So people here don't need insurance and all care in hospital is free, and it's always been that way. People here consider a lack of government-provided healthcare to be something that happens in 3rd world countries the same way they think of a lack of government-provided water-supply or a lack of government-provided roads to be something that happens in 3rd world countries.

            Most Western countries do it the same way as us in NZ, with the government running it all, and it works well. It's the cheapest and most efficient type of system because it cuts out the middle-man of the healthcare insurance industry, so all the money that was going into paying the salaries of everyone in the private insurance companies can instead be spent on healthcare instead. Nobody's writing bills, writing policies, taking phonecalls to argue over coverage, etc, there's just the doctors being paid by the government to provide healthcare to all-comers. Apart from the US, all the world's English-speaking countries (UK, Scotland, Ireland, Australia, New Zealand, Canada) use variations on this system as well as numerous European countries

            Some other Western European countries use a more Obamacare-like model - where there's compulsory universal-buy-in to a heavily-regulated private-provider industry. Switzerland and the Netherlands have the best example of such systems working well, if you want to read about them. Generally they are less-efficient and more-expensive but provide slightly higher quality care than the fully government-run systems. (Basically the reason for that is that if you spend more money you can get better healthcare, and though the fully-government-run systems are most efficient, there are always political incentives for politicians to give tax breaks by cutting government spending so they tend to try to lower the amount they are spending on health to the minimum that their voters will accept, so although the system is efficient they try to put limited funds into it. Whereas in the Obamacare-like models the government doesn't control the costs, and the private industry involvement puts an upward pressure on prices as everyone involved in the healthcare industry is trying to make a buck out of it, so the expenditure gets pushed upwards, and even though the overall system is less efficient in the sense that not all of the money going into it is paying for doctors and healthcare costs, the increased spending tends to outmatch that and more healthcare is obtained in the end)

            At the end of the day either system works okay and provides good healthcare to all citizens. There are no examples of "free market" healthcare working anywhere in the world though. I think the correct way forward for the US, is to simply expand medicare to cover everyone the way President Truman originally intended when he introduced medicare. Anyone who wasn't satisfied with the government-provided medicare coverage could, of course, buy their own coverage from a private insurer if they wished, but it would give everyone a baseline of care. Medicare is currently a very popular program and it's much more financially efficient than the private system (Medicare has about 2% overheads - i.e. 2 percent of the money being spent on it goes into administrative costs and doesn't end up paying for people's healthcare, while private insurance runs at about 17% overheads and prior to Obamacare was running at about 50% overheads), so expanding it would seem to make the most sense.
            "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
            "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
            "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Starlight View Post
              Of course it failed. Pretty much everything Trump does fails.
              Outside of being a supporter of it, did Trump really have that much to do with it? Sure, he would've signed it had it reached his desk, but I thought that it was put together by people in congress without much direct involvement from Trump himself.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by TheWall View Post
                Yet look at all the businesses trump runs that are successful.

                You know I'm curious. My solution to the Healthcare debacle is to break up the insurance monopoly allowing more private insurance and competition. Also might as well try to get the FDA to stop being so restrictive on epi pens. Quotas are hurting us.

                So starlight what's your plan? Afterall we all want to change the world.
                The plan is to make health care affordable for everyone. To that end Obamacare was a compromise with the republicans who care more about their stupid priciples than they do about peoples health. Obama and the Democrats would rather have gone single payor, or medicare for all, but knew they could never get that passed at the time. So they compromised with Obamacare. The republican plan on the other hand, the plan they've been working on for 7 years now, voting 65 times to repeal Obamacare, was going to throw 24 million people off of the insured rolls, 14 million by next year, and would have raised the rates on the poor and the elderly. But not to worry, the wealthy would get a yuuuge tax cut and they're the ones that we have to take care of.

                Comment


                • #9

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                    And it's not like they even managed to have a serious healthcare bill. It was a bill that everyone hated, even Republicans. The bill polled at 17% approval. Sad!
                    "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                    "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                    "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                      Of course it failed. Pretty much everything Trump does fails.

                      His casinos failed. His airline failed. His university failed.

                      His Muslim ban has failed. His healthcare has failed. His military strike in Yemen failed. Having Mexico pay for the wall has failed.

                      The guy's just a loser.
                      Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by TheWall View Post
                        Honestly I just want the debates and Bernie Sanders monologs to stop.
                        Well one good thing, the Dems will own Obama care as it goes forward and collapses.
                        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by seer View Post
                          Well one good thing, the Dems will own Obama care as it goes forward and collapses.
                          It's amusing that Trump watches so much Fox News that he actually believes the propaganda that Obamacare will "collapse". He actually told Republican congressmen that letting it collapse was his plan B. They must have been laughing at him, because unlike Trump they're not stupid enough to themselves believe their own propaganda.
                          "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                          "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                          "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by seer View Post
                            Well one good thing, the Dems will own Obama care as it goes forward and collapses.
                            You have to stop listening to the con man seer. Its unfortunate, and it may not be for long, but right now Trump is the president, and it was up to him to fulfill the promise he made to his naive supporters to make health insurance better and more affordable for everyone. Obamacare needs fixing, and the main reason it needs fixing is because of republican obstructionism and sabotage. So whats plan B, now that its understood the american people don't like Trumpcare, the republican version of health insurance? Let it implode, yeah thats it, just let Obamacare implode, thats quite a president you people elected there. The guy is a schmuck and a con man, and more than likely a traitor to the country, and eventually you Trump supporters are going to have no choice but to wake up face the facts.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by JimL View Post
                              You have to stop listening to the con man seer. Its unfortunate, and it may not be for long, but right now Trump is the president, and it was up to him to fulfill the promise he made to his naive supporters to make health insurance better and more affordable for everyone. Obamacare needs fixing, and the main reason it needs fixing is because of republican obstructionism and sabotage. So whats plan B, now that its understood the american people don't like Trumpcare, the republican version of health insurance? Let it implode, yeah thats it, just let Obamacare implode, thats quite a president you people elected there. The guy is a schmuck and a con man, and more than likely a traitor to the country, and eventually you Trump supporters are going to have no choice but to wake up face the facts.
                              No Jim, the reason why the ACA is going to fail is because it was a deeply flawed bill from the get go. The Trump/Ryan bill was probably not much better. I hate to say this but we may need to just bite the bullet and go to a single payer system.
                              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                              Comment

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