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What should the drinking age be?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    When was it first instituted? I'm guessing it came out of the temperance movement of the 19th century.
    Pretty much since it wasn't uncommon for boys to enter pubs and saloons to buy a beer with their wages back in Victorian times.

    I'm always still in trouble again

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Terraceth View Post
      At the age of 18 you are apparently regarded as mature/competent enough to:
      1) Smoke
      2) Vote
      3) Get drafted
      4) Enter contracts
      5) Be tried as an adult in court
      6) Be elected to most public offices
      (it's true some of these can be done at ages lower than 18 under certain circumstances, but 18 is when they can always be done)

      Yet, somehow, you're not regarded as mature/competent enough to drink?

      Maybe they could do it like they do in Germany, where they have two separate ages: One for drinking spirits, and one for drinking non-spirits alcohol. Keep 21 for spirits but lower it to 18 for the non-spirits like beer and wine.
      I work with a lot of 18 year olds. Many of them are idiots. I would argue that a lot of the things on that list should be out of bounds for them.

      Fwiw,
      Guacamole
      "Down in the lowlands, where the water is deep,
      Hear my cry, hear my shout,
      Save me, save me"

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      • #18
        Originally posted by guacamole View Post
        I work with a lot of 18 year olds. Many of them are idiots. I would argue that a lot of the things on that list should be out of bounds for them.
        There are many idiot 21 year olds as well.

        Still, if the claim is that 18 year olds shouldn't be able to do any of that either, then move those up to 21. I just want some kind of simple consistency, whether it's putting everything at 21 or putting it all at 18. Though I expect lowering the age to 18 would be a whole lot easier.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Terraceth View Post
          There are many idiot 21 year olds as well.

          Still, if the claim is that 18 year olds shouldn't be able to do any of that either, then move those up to 21. I just want some kind of simple consistency, whether it's putting everything at 21 or putting it all at 18. Though I expect lowering the age to 18 would be a whole lot easier.
          Simple consistency isn't necessarily reasonable if the different acts have different levels of consequence if abused. Realistically, an 18 year old who smokes too much is merely hurting himself (presuming he smokes alone). An 18 year old who votes foolishly has a limited impact. An 18 year old who drinks too much and who drives under the influence is a threat to others.

          fwiw,
          Guac.
          "Down in the lowlands, where the water is deep,
          Hear my cry, hear my shout,
          Save me, save me"

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          • #20
            Originally posted by guacamole View Post
            Simple consistency isn't necessarily reasonable if the different acts have different levels of consequence if abused. Realistically, an 18 year old who smokes too much is merely hurting himself (presuming he smokes alone). An 18 year old who votes foolishly has a limited impact. An 18 year old who drinks too much and who drives under the influence is a threat to others.

            fwiw,
            Guac.
            But drinking while driving would still be illegal.
            Find my speling strange? I'm trying this out: Simplified Speling. Feel free to join me.

            "Nature has placed mankind under the governance of two sovereign masters, pain and pleasure. It is for them alone to point out what we ought to do, as well as to determine what we shall do."-Jeremy Bentham

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            • #21
              Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
              I thought that most if not all allow children to have a glass of wine with their meals -- in their homes, not restaurants.
              Exactly how would they stop them?

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              • #22
                Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                I thought that most if not all allow children to have a glass of wine with their meals -- in their homes, not restaurants.
                It looks like 31 states specifically allow that or location exceptions, and 9 states specifically prohibit it.
                https://alcoholpolicy.niaaa.nih.gov/....html?tab=Maps

                Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                Exactly how would they stop them?
                I suppose the same way the police would have stopped people having gay sex in their houses when that was still illegal. I'm not sure how it works for either case unless someone calls the police about it.
                Find my speling strange? I'm trying this out: Simplified Speling. Feel free to join me.

                "Nature has placed mankind under the governance of two sovereign masters, pain and pleasure. It is for them alone to point out what we ought to do, as well as to determine what we shall do."-Jeremy Bentham

                "We question all our beliefs, except for the ones that we really believe in, and those we never think to question."-Orson Scott Card

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by guacamole View Post
                  Simple consistency isn't necessarily reasonable if the different acts have different levels of consequence if abused. Realistically, an 18 year old who smokes too much is merely hurting himself (presuming he smokes alone). An 18 year old who votes foolishly has a limited impact. An 18 year old who drinks too much and who drives under the influence is a threat to others.

                  fwiw,
                  Guac.
                  And that same 18-year-old who we don't trust to use alcohol responsibly can sign up to join the military, be sent to a foreign country (or assigned to guard a domestic base or some such), given a gun, and trusted to decide when it's appropriate to kill someone. It's a bit...incongruous.
                  "If you believe, take the first step, it leads to Jesus Christ. If you don't believe, take the first step all the same, for you are bidden to take it. No one wants to know about your faith or unbelief, your orders are to perform the act of obedience on the spot. Then you will find yourself in the situation where faith becomes possible and where faith exists in the true sense of the word." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship

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                  • #24
                    If you can sign away your life to the govt at 18 you should be able to drink then. However, the law does not apply to homes, religious ceremonies weddings etc.
                    A happy family is but an earlier heaven.
                    George Bernard Shaw

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by stfoskey15 View Post
                      It looks like 31 states specifically allow that or location exceptions, and 9 states specifically prohibit it.
                      https://alcoholpolicy.niaaa.nih.gov/....html?tab=Maps



                      I suppose the same way the police would have stopped people having gay sex in their houses when that was still illegal. I'm not sure how it works for either case unless someone calls the police about it.
                      I was born in Germany. I had my first beer when I was two.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                        I was born in Germany. I had my first beer when I was two.
                        You've been chasing the dragon ever since, haven't you?
                        Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                          You've been chasing the dragon ever since, haven't you?
                          Beer is a gateway drug.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Terraceth View Post
                            At the age of 18 you are apparently regarded as mature/competent enough to:
                            1) Smoke
                            2) Vote
                            3) Get drafted
                            4) Enter contracts
                            5) Be tried as an adult in court
                            6) Be elected to most public offices
                            (it's true some of these can be done at ages lower than 18 under certain circumstances, but 18 is when they can always be done)

                            Yet, somehow, you're not regarded as mature/competent enough to drink?

                            Maybe they could do it like they do in Germany, where they have two separate ages: One for drinking spirits, and one for drinking non-spirits alcohol. Keep 21 for spirits but lower it to 18 for the non-spirits like beer and wine.
                            Originally posted by guacamole View Post
                            I work with a lot of 18 year olds. Many of them are idiots. I would argue that a lot of the things on that list should be out of bounds for them.

                            Fwiw,
                            Guacamole
                            Arbitrary numbers are arbitrary.
                            I'm not here anymore.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by stfoskey15 View Post
                              I suppose the same way the police would have stopped people having gay sex in their houses when that was still illegal. I'm not sure how it works for either case unless someone calls the police about it.
                              It's been proven that doesn't stand up in court.
                              I'm not here anymore.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by stfoskey15 View Post
                                That is the question. As an 18-year-old, I'd kind of prefer if they lowered the drinking age to 18 (at least for private consumption) like they had pre-mid-1980s. I don't drink and even if it were legal I probably wouldn't, but a lot of my underage friends do. They seem to do it responsibly, or at least they don't get too drunk when I'm around, and only seem to drink on weekends. But to be fair I don't hang out with people who go to crazy frat parties. One fairly moderate proposal I heard was to allow the drinking of one glass of beer or wine at restaurants or bars for people starting at the age of 18. This would hopefully allow young people to learn responsible drinking habits and not get alcohol in sketchy areas. They could even lower the store purchasing age to 19 and not have to worry about high school seniors giving alcohol to other high schoolers. What are your thoughts on the issue?
                                The drinking age in the US should be the same as the marrying age in Saudi Arabia.
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                                If your whole worldview rests on a particular claim being true, you damn well better have evidence for it. You should have tons of evidence.

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