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Trumpcare failed because not conservative enough

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
    Anyone who thought Trump was conservative was just doing wishful thinking. His only advantage was that he was not Hillary.
    Well, that and the Russian's.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
      Trumpcare failed because the Republicans thought Hillary would win. They didn't have a serious replacement plan ready to go even with 7 years to prepare it.
      No, it failed because it had nothing to do with actual health care.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by JimL View Post
        Trump isn't a moderate, Trump just has no clue.
        A couple of good cartoons from this week on Trump's failure to get Trumpcare past the GOP:



        "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
        "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
        "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by JimL View Post
          Trump isn't a moderate, Trump just has no clue. The health insurance bill he was going to sign into law was hardly moderate, nor do I believe Trump understood or cared what the hell was in the bill. He's neither conservative, liberal or moderate, he's an amoral empty vessell.
          Even a straight up repeal of obamacare would have been moderate given that the government already provides health insurance for the poor. You simply redefine moderate to mean whatever you want it to mean despite you yourself being a robotic progressive hack who is simply incapable of thinking anything that wasn't beamed directly into your head by the DNC.
          "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

          There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Starlight View Post
            A couple of good cartoons
            Your "intellectual" droppings rarely amount to more than a 1 panel cartoon so this is very appropriate.
            "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

            There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
              Even a straight up repeal of obamacare would have been moderate given that the government already provides health insurance for the poor.
              Obamacare included an expansion of Medicaid, which 31 states + DC have now implemented to provide health insurance to more poor. A 'straight up repeal' would roll that back. It would also roll-back things like coverage for pre-existing conditions, and the ability of children to remain on their parents' healthcare plan until the age of 26.

              So in the sense that you would substantially cut Medicaid (the government program providing health insurance for the poor) by repealing Obamacare, you would quite literally be cutting the healthcare for the poor if you did "a straight up repeal of obamacare". You could, of course, propose repealing everything else in Obamacare and leave the Medicaid expansion in, but that's not what you said.
              "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
              "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
              "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                Obamacare included an expansion of Medicaid, which 31 states + DC have now implemented to provide health insurance to more poor. A 'straight up repeal' would roll that back. It would also roll-back things like coverage for pre-existing conditions, and the ability of children to remain on their parents' healthcare plan until the age of 26.

                So in the sense that you would substantially cut Medicaid (the government program providing health insurance for the poor) by repealing Obamacare, you would quite literally be cutting the healthcare for the poor if you did "a straight up repeal of obamacare". You could, of course, propose repealing everything else in Obamacare and leave the Medicaid expansion in, but that's not what you said.
                Just because you passed Obamacare does not mean the new level of support becomes the gold standard for what is moderate and any shift backwards is suddenly partisan. Even if the bill reduces the amount that the poor would have gotten from Obamacare, obamacare was just a slight push to the left from the existing, moderate model and repealing it would still leave its healthcare system as a moderate compromise.
                "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

                There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
                  Your "intellectual" droppings rarely amount to more than a 1 panel cartoon so this is very appropriate.
                  LOL. I have a PhD in a science field. I can like a one-panel cartoon if I want without feeling it threatens my intellectual manliness.

                  Have you even had any tertiary education at all? Or did you drop out of secondary school at age 15 after failing all your classes?
                  "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                  "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                  "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                    LOL. I have a PhD in a science field. I can like a one-panel cartoon if I want without feeling it threatens my intellectual manliness.
                    As I said, the problem isn't just the cartoons themselves, it's that your posts never rise above their low intellectual level. And the fact that you'd even bring up an accusation of insecurity (it was actually just an accusation of being dumb) is very revealing. I suspect that you are, in fact, quite insecure of your educational accomplishments. I wouldn't be surprised if your PhD was either from a diploma mill or in a joke field that, if revealed, would produce little more than mirth around here.

                    Have you even had any tertiary education at all?
                    Sure. I'm in college right now actually.
                    "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

                    There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
                      Even a straight up repeal of obamacare would have been moderate given that the government already provides health insurance for the poor. You simply redefine moderate to mean whatever you want it to mean despite you yourself being a robotic progressive hack who is simply incapable of thinking anything that wasn't beamed directly into your head by the DNC.
                      The conservatives propose more than a straight repeal of Obamacare, with nothing to replace it for the middle class. There is a cleaver job for Medicare/Mediaid on the table too.
                      Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                      Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                      But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                      go with the flow the river knows . . .

                      Frank

                      I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
                        I wouldn't be surprised if your PhD was either from a diploma mill or in a joke field that, if revealed, would produce little more than mirth around here.
                        I bought it online from Trump University 2.0 in China, and it's in Fake Climate Science Designed To Destroy US Industry with a side project in Bad Biblical Interpretation.

                        I'm in college right now actually.
                        Well that's pleasantly surprising. I honestly expected you to respond by saying that education was a liberal conspiracy, seriously. Variants of that seem a common view around here.
                        "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                        "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                        "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                          Obamacare included an expansion of Medicaid, which 31 states + DC have now implemented to provide health insurance to more poor. A 'straight up repeal' would roll that back. It would also roll-back things like coverage for pre-existing conditions, and the ability of children to remain on their parents' healthcare plan until the age of 26.
                          Actually Trump originally 'Promised' these features of healthcare would remain in the the new plan, but guess what he lied, lied and lied again. They are not in the Dumpy Trumpity Health Care Plan, and the conservatives would not accept them except for the wealthy and Congress.

                          The bottom line is everyone can have full healthcare coverage under the Dumpy Trumpity Health Care Plan, but, ah . . . they will have to pay for it, pay through the nose, at rates beyond their economic means. Yeah, like everyone can drive new BMWs too.

                          So in the sense that you would substantially cut Medicaid (the government program providing health insurance for the poor) by repealing Obamacare, you would quite literally be cutting the healthcare for the poor if you did "a straight up repeal of obamacare". You could, of course, propose repealing everything else in Obamacare and leave the Medicaid expansion in, but that's not what you said.
                          The new Dumpy Trumpity Health Care Plan proposes a stripped down more expensive program for the poor and middle class with greatly reduced coverage.
                          Last edited by shunyadragon; 03-26-2017, 08:25 PM.
                          Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                          Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                          But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                          go with the flow the river knows . . .

                          Frank

                          I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
                            Just because you passed Obamacare does not mean the new level of support becomes the gold standard for what is moderate and any shift backwards is suddenly partisan.Even if the bill reduces the amount that the poor would have gotten from Obamacare, obamacare was just a slight push to the left from the existing, moderate model and repealing it would still leave its healthcare system as a moderate compromise.
                            So what? We on the left, you know, the non-sociopaths, don't want a moderate plan which leaves many millions of people without healthcare.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                              I bought it online from Trump University 2.0 in China, and it's in Fake Climate Science Designed To Destroy US Industry with a side project in Bad Biblical Interpretation.
                              Psychology, huh? Did I nail it or did I nail it?

                              Well that's pleasantly surprising. I honestly expected you to respond by saying that education was a liberal conspiracy, seriously. Variants of that seem a common view around here.
                              A lot of post-secondary education is pure progressive propaganda. The worst of it can be avoided just by staying out of garbage programs though. You still have to put up with the odd absurdity but it's easy to tune out, especially if you've had a proper Internet education before you get to college.
                              "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

                              There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by JimL View Post
                                So what? We on the left, you know, the non-sociopaths, don't want a moderate plan which leaves many millions of people without healthcare.
                                Like I told starlight in another thread feel free to create a progressive megacharity that deals with the issue. If you were actually interested in healthcare, that is. But you're not, you just want to put everybody at the mercy of international corporations.
                                "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

                                There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

                                Comment

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