When Do Millennials Think They Become Adults?

[Jedidiah]

Salaries were lower but so was everything else. And things were disproportionately lower 30, 40 years ago, especially college and medical costs. College was almost free, or really cheap. Today it costs an arm and a leg. And 40 years ago a bachelor's degree pretty much guaranteed a spot in the middle class, today it does not. This is just over 20 years:



Basically it's only affordable to live on your own as a young adult if you live in the middle of nowhere, where there will be few jobs paying over 30k a year.

Where I live in NYC a 1 bedroom apt rents for $3000 per month in Manhattan, and even in the "cheap" areas it's about $1,500-$2,000. Minimum wage is just over $9 an hour in NY state, but will rise to $15 an hour by 2021. Still, $15 an hour, which is about 30k a year for full time work, can't even get you a 1 bedroom in NYC, unless you want to live in the worst and most violent neighborhoods where you have to worry about being shot everyday.

This is why so many adults still live with their parents in their 20s.

NYC is far from any sort of average.

[Sparko]

The kids today actually have it pretty easy compared to us older folks.

Why, we didn't have the namby-pamby interwebs and monster.com to send out resumes. We had to look up jobs in a newspaper and go to the businesses and fill out applications! And we didn't have no new-fangled cell phones. No! After we submitted our applications we had to sit next to our home phones waiting for a call asking us to come in for an interview. And I remember one interview where I had to walk 3 miles though a snow drift, uphill to get to the interview! And then on the way back, the sun had melted the snow drift next to the business but not next to my home and I had to trudge back home uphill again for another 3 miles. But did we complain? No! That is the way it was and we liked it!

[rogue06]

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In utter shock and confusion the son went down into the
basement and played video games until 5 AM the next day.

[The Thinker]

No I am using actual numbers. The 30K and the minimum wage thing are two separate discussions. 30K is the figure you mentioned earlier as the average in the country. Well not too long ago I was making it. I had a pretty nice middle class lifestyle. Sorry if that barely buys you a cheeseburger in NYC. And I can't think of anywhere where you would have to work 10 years to make 30K in the USA at a full time job.

As far as apartments go, the type I lived in when I was in school (basically an older house that was divided up into several apartments and we had a two bedroom apartment) which cost about $200-$400 back in the 1980s, costs about $500-$800 here now. The cost of living has gone up since then, but so has the wages. It all averages out.

It doesn't average out because living costs and expenses (like college education, medical and child care, and housing costs) have gone up much more than inflation. So it's harder to live now as a young adult on your own than it was in the 70s and 80s. That's why so many young adults are living at home: they cannot afford to live on their own.

I think I was looking up what I was trying for, a senior graphic designer. It has been several years now. But looking that up on a salary site now it shows that the average is 57K and NYC is 71K with max around $97K. Also the wages vary a lot in that industry depending on what field you are working on, general advertising, web design, TV commercials, the Music Industry, etc. but hey if you don't believe me that is cool.

Ok but still, very few graphic designers are making 100k or above. 57k is decent in NYC. You can definitely live in a studio apt or a 1 bedroom with a room mate at that salary. But most people in NYC are making less than that.

Like I said, I think way too many kids go to college who probably should not. I also said that I have no problem with a kid staying at home while going to college or school. Going into debt for a degree that has no earning potential is more than stupid in my opinion.

I'm sympathetic here. I think many people can just go to a trade school and learn how to do a skilled job. But even those for-profit trade schools rip people off and can get expensive.

I already showed you that is not the case. The relative cost of living is about the same now as it was in the 80s and 90s compared to income. It all averages out. You can repeat yourself all you want but it just isn't true. My nephew just moved out of his parents place a few years ago. He had a couple of room mates and they did just fine on minimum wage jobs till he found a better job.

You showed me? You gave an anecdote with unsourced numbers that you must have recalled from memory, and I showed your memory isn't all that reliable. So no, you haven't "showed" anything.

Minimum wage is not meant to support you. It is for entry level jobs for kids starting out, or folks wanting to make a little extra money. It is not meant to be your entire life career. If it is, you are doing it wrong.

Tell that to the people living in Appalachia who have few opportunities to find work that pays above minimum wage.

[The Thinker]

NYC is far from any sort of average.

The same basic picture exists in many metropolitan areas around the country.

[Sparko]

It doesn't average out because living costs and expenses (like college education, medical and child care, and housing costs) have gone up much more than inflation. So it's harder to live now as a young adult on your own than it was in the 70s and 80s. That's why so many young adults are living at home: they cannot afford to live on their own.



Ok but still, very few graphic designers are making 100k or above. 57k is decent in NYC. You can definitely live in a studio apt or a 1 bedroom with a room mate at that salary. But most people in NYC are making less than that.



I'm sympathetic here. I think many people can just go to a trade school and learn how to do a skilled job. But even those for-profit trade schools rip people off and can get expensive.



You showed me? You gave an anecdote with unsourced numbers that you must have recalled from memory, and I showed your memory isn't all that reliable. So no, you haven't "showed" anything.



Tell that to the people living in Appalachia who have few opportunities to find work that pays above minimum wage.

There is this thing called "moving"

[rogue06]

There is this thing called "moving"

Exactly.

What we've seen here from a few posters is the sort of behavior that explains why so many millennials don't think they're adults until they're 30 years old: Life is tough. It's scary Wah. I think I'll stay in mommy and daddy's basement until I'm not afraid.

[Carrikature]

Increase the minimum wage and you increase everything else and it all remains the same relatively speaking.

The piece missing is the added cost of education. All things being equal, the added cost of student loans is significantly higher than ever before (and climbing). I agree that not all kids should go to college, but even those going into really high paying jobs have a stupid amount of debt to overcome.

[Starlight]

I don't really approve of kids that age being allowed to join the military. Taking an immoral career in the military is a serious moral decision that kids that age don't really have the capacity to fully understand, and it seems like child abuse to me that they are allowed to be recruited and trained to kill.

bold emphasis mine

Just like I thought you have no moral compass at all Starlight. You who have stated that you think it would be ok to kill an innocent 3 month old baby(the ultimate child abuse) have no right to impugn the morals of those who have sworn to protect you, at the risk of their own lives, from those who would attack you. You sir are a "jackass*".

*Not the word that best describes you but it is against campus decorum and is one of the reason I choose not to use it.

Obviously I find the US idolization of military service to be profoundly disturbing. I agree with the plurality of the world's population in viewing US militarism as the number one threat to world peace. I think basically all the wars that the US has unilaterally engaged in over the last century were immoral and unjustified. I think the US's refusal to abide by international laws regarding war crimes is horrific. I don't think it's at all appropriate to praise the idea of the military or to praise military service nor appropriate or moral to train kids to kill people they've never met. The way people in the US so enthusiastically sign up for careers in the military that are by their nature immoral, is awful. And the way much of the country celebrates those in the military is evil.

[lilpixieofterror]

Obviously I find the US idolization of military service to be profoundly disturbing.

Of course you do because you're too dumb to refute anything I have given you that proves you wrong. Don't worry ISIS will not execute you, no matter how much you hate those of us that prevent that.

I agree with the plurality of the world's population in viewing US militarism as the number one threat to world peace. I think basically all the wars that the US has unilaterally engaged in over the last century were immoral and unjustified.

Too bad your dumb opinion means nothing and I already showed your assertions as false, huh? If it was up to you, South Korea wouldn't exist as an independent country and the Soviet Union would have likely taken over all of Europe. Sure glad a moron like you isn't in charge of anything or we'd be speaking another language.

I think the US's refusal to abide by international laws regarding war crimes is horrific.

The US has some of the most restrictive ROE's in the business, but why get the facts when hatred is easier?

I don't think it's at all appropriate to praise the idea of the military or to praise military service nor appropriate or moral to train kids to kill people they've never met.

I've been in the military 13 years and have been trained to work on machines for flight line operations, have been trained in leadership, have been trained in policies, and my weapon training is mostly defensive. Believe it or not, most military members are not infantry. Most play support roles and many missions have nothing to do with shooting anyone. I've taken part in several humanitarian relief missions. Now beyond sitting on the computer and whining about something you clearly know absolutely nothing about, what do you actually do to help your fellow humans?

The way people in the US so enthusiastically sign up for careers in the military that are by their nature immoral, is awful. And the way much of the country celebrates those in the military is evil.

And the way you continue to lie about military life shows how stupid you truly are. I've actually lived the military life and know what you offer up is pretty much lies and assertions. You clearly know nothing about those who you hate so much, so do atheists a favor and stop talking. You'd sound 100 times smarter.

[lilpixieofterror]

The same basic picture exists in many metropolitan areas around the country.

No it doesn't, but don't let your ignorance stop you from believing that.

[ke7ejx]

In any case, I feel like we're derailing the point of the thread.

[Jedidiah]

in any case, i feel like we're derailing the point of the thread.

SOP

ETA: How do I make the SOP all caps when posted?
ETA: I guess I did it.

[ke7ejx]

sop

eta: How do i make the sop all caps when posted?
Eta: I guess i did it.

sop?

[MaxVel]

sop?

Standard Operating Procedure