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July 27th 2010, 02:49 AM #1
The Cave of the Patriarchs and NT
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cave_of_the_Patriarchs
Genesis 23:9 has: "m'arat hamachpelah" = cave of Machpela.
But Genesis 49: 13 has: "m'arat sadeh hamachpelah" = cave of the field of Machpela.
So maybe the name Machpela denotes still something else.
Root "kafal" = to double, multiply.
Rashi uses "kafal" in his comment on Genesis 2:3, "la'asot"., that God created to do (to make):
http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_...showrashi/true
This seems to refer to Genesis 1:26, "na'aseh Adam" = let us make man.
Rashi:
http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_...showrashi/true
They were thinking Adam had to be created on the seventh day -
But while they were disputing about the pro's and contra's of the creation of man God created him already on the sixth day. (Genesis 1:27).
He created him with two bodies:
Rashi on Genesis 2:7, "vayitzer"
Same notion you find with Paul, 1Corinthians 15:44
But this is also in the Gospels:
The body of Jesus was laid in the tomb at the end of the sixth day, right at the beginning of sabbath. The entrance of the tomb being like the entrance of sabbath.
Moreover:
Rashi on Genesis 2:3, And…blessed…and hallowed:
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July 28th 2010, 04:35 AM #2
Re: The Cave of the Patriarchs and NT
More evidence that NT is about the meaning of Machpela is in the saying, Mark 12:26-27:
As for the dead being raised, have you not read in the Book of Moses, in the passage about the bush, how God told him, 'I am the God of Abraham, (the) God of Isaac, and (the) God of Jacob'? He is not God of the dead but of the living.NT commentaries say it is about Exodus 3:6, but it is about Exodus 3,15 as well. or even just about v.15:
And God said further to Moses, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'The Lord God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is My name forever, and this is how I should be mentioned in every generation.
Rashi:
His Name being hidden in the beginletters of "yom hashishi vay'chulu hashamayim" = at the entrance of Sabbath = entrance to gan Eden:
http://shiratdevorah.blogspot.com/20...-gan-eden.html
Kaleb stayed at that place when the spies were spying the promised land:
Rashi on Numbers 13:22.
So Mark 12:27 is not just allegory, but very scriptural (the Sadducees being adherents of the rule of "sola scriptura").
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July 31st 2010, 03:31 AM #3
Re: The Cave of the Patriarchs and NT
"Hebron: 4000 Years + 40 The Story of the City of the Patriarchs By Noam Arnon Second Edition On the Occasion of the 40th Anniversary of the Reestablishment of the Jewish Community of Hebron, 1968-2008 Arye Klein, Consultant Naftali Greenwood,Translator Yossi Baumol, English Editor The Jewish Community of Hebron: Nearly Total Continuity since the Biblical Era"]Hebron: 4000 Years + 40
The Story of the City of the Patriarchs
By Noam Arnon
Second Edition
On the Occasion of the 40th Anniversary of
the Reestablishment of the Jewish Community of Hebron, 1968-2008
Arye Klein, Consultant Naftali Greenwood,Translator Yossi Baumol, English Editor
The Jewish Community of Hebron: Nearly Total Continuity since the Biblical Era
The city’s ancient name is Kiryat Arba, as the Bible confirms: “The name of Hebron in bygone times was Kiryat Arba” (Josh. 14:15). The name may be geographic in origin, denoting the connection and merging of four (Heb.: arba’) urban quarters. Some, however, believe that Arba’ is the name of a person who once controlled the town. Others cite the four ‘anaqim (“giants”) who dominated the town in antiquity; yet others emphasize the four couples who are buried there: Adam and Eve, Abraham and Sarah, Isaac and Rebecca and Jacob and Leah.
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July 31st 2010, 06:22 AM #4
Re: The Cave of the Patriarchs and NT
Some say that the name of Judas Iskariot has to be understood as Yehudah Ish-Kiryat, the man from Kiryat Arba.
"Arba" we know also from "arba kanfot" = the four corners of the earth.
or "arba ruchot" , the four directions of the earth
Rashi on Genesis 2:7,
Judas Iskariot being the one who delivered Jesus unto death....
More:
"arba" has gematria 273, same as "rega" = the indivisible moment, smallest unit of time.
Paul knew that...
1Corinthians 15:51-52
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August 2nd 2010, 08:20 PM #5
Re: The Cave of the Patriarchs and NT
What about Psalm 107:3? and also Isaiah 43:5-6, Deuteronomy 30:1-2:
Rabbi Frand on Parshas Ki Savo
"There is a consolation. It is that you will realize that you did wrong; you will repent, and G-d will gather you from the four corners of the earth. The question then becomes, if both Tochachos have within themselves built in consolations - why does that of Bechukosai come immediately, but that of Ki Savo come only after a pause of 50 pasukim?
Rabbi Soloveitchik answers based on the Ramban. The Ramban tells us that the two Tochachas are reflective of the two destructions that befell the Jewish nation. The Tochacha in Vayikra (Bechukosai) foretells the destruction of the First Temple; the Tochacha in Devorim (here in Ki Savo) foretells the destruction of the Second Temple. The destruction of the First Temple came with a pre-determined, pre-announced limit: seventy years you will be in Exile, and then the Exile will be over. There was some ambiguity as to when the counting of the 70 years began, but they knew without a doubt that the Exile had a finite end point. Therefore, the corresponding Tochacha has a finite end - an announcement of consolation immediately at the end of the pasukim foretelling destruction and exile."
.......This maybe the answer to One Size's thread, what do you think?
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August 3rd 2010, 01:52 AM #6
Re: The Cave of the Patriarchs and NT
Maybe that's why Mark 13:10
καὶ εἰς πάντα τὰ ἔθνη πρῶτον δεῖ κηρυχθῆναι τὸ εὐαγγέλιον
"And to all the nations first must be preached the Gospel" -
Because of we are submerged in their idol worship and nearly drowned?
Seven seventies?Rabbi Frand on Parshas Ki Savo
"There is a consolation. It is that you will realize that you did wrong; you will repent, and G-d will gather you from the four corners of the earth. The question then becomes, if both Tochachos have within themselves built in consolations - why does that of Bechukosai come immediately, but that of Ki Savo come only after a pause of 50 pasukim?
Rabbi Soloveitchik answers based on the Ramban. The Ramban tells us that the two Tochachas are reflective of the two destructions that befell the Jewish nation. The Tochacha in Vayikra (Bechukosai) foretells the destruction of the First Temple; the Tochacha in Devorim (here in Ki Savo) foretells the destruction of the Second Temple. The destruction of the First Temple came with a pre-determined, pre-announced limit: seventy years you will be in Exile, and then the Exile will be over. There was some ambiguity as to when the counting of the 70 years began, but they knew without a doubt that the Exile had a finite end point. Therefore, the corresponding Tochacha has a finite end - an announcement of consolation immediately at the end of the pasukim foretelling destruction and exile."
.......This maybe the answer to One Size's thread, what do you think?
= seventy sevens?
Genesis 4:24,
Rashi:
which is a theme of NT!
(the 77 Generations from Adam to Jesus mentioned by Luke seem to hint at this!)
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August 7th 2010, 10:44 PM #7
Re: The Cave of the Patriarchs and NT
*********
Again,Rabbi Frand on Parshas Ki Savo
"There is a consolation. It is that you will realize that you did wrong; you will repent, and G-d will gather you from the four corners of the earth.
Nehemiah 1:
8 "Remember the instruction you gave your servant Moses, saying, 'If you are unfaithful, I will scatter you among the nations, 9 but if you return to me and obey my commands, then even if your exiled people are at the farthest horizon, I will gather them from there and bring them to the place I have chosen as a dwelling for my Name.'
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August 8th 2010, 03:16 AM #8
Re: The Cave of the Patriarchs and NT
My thought:
The second Exile will last seven times seventy years = seventy times seven years = many times seven years.
Like commented by Rashi on Genesis 4:24,
seventy-seven fold:
I said this a theme of NT,
cf. Matthew 18:21-22,
Then Peter approaching asked him, "Lord, if my brother sins against me, how often must I forgive him? As many as seven times?"
Jesus answered, "I say to you, not seven times but seventy-seven times.
which is inspired on Genesis 4:24.
Seventy-seven times, the Greek corresponds exactly to the LXX .
Lamech appears also in the generation-list of Adam via Set (Genesis 5) --
Lamech fathered Noach, Noach being the Ben-Adam = son of man. (since only in the case of Lamech there is written "vayoled ben" = and he fathered a son.
Lamech prophesied, Genesis 5: 29
"This one will give us rest from our work and from the toil of our hands from the ground, which the Lord has cursed."
Just like what is written Matthew 11:28,
Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest
Now you must know more about Noach and the ark, Noach who found "chen" = favor, and the ark = "teivah" = written word.
Noach becoming Menachem = consoler.
Jewish custom is to add the name Mendel (almond) to Menachem.
Menachem Mendel -- that the Consoler may hurry, make haste!Last edited by sylvius; August 8th 2010 at 03:24 AM.
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August 9th 2010, 01:18 PM #9
Re: The Cave of the Patriarchs and NT
"Most Jews associate repentance with the High Holy Days. The ten-day period from the start of Rosh ha-Shana to the end of Yom Kippur is known as Aseret Y'mai Teshuva, the Ten Days of Repentance. However, attendance at synagogue on these days, even when accompanied by sincere repentance, only wins forgiveness for offenses committed against God. As the Talmud teaches: "The Day of Atonement atones for sins against God, not for sins against man, unless the injured party has been appeased" (Mishna Yoma 8:9)."
Rosh Hashanah: September 9, 2010 (Jewish Year 5771)
Yom Kippur: September 18, 2010 (Jewish Year 5771)
and so to stop and make a point:
Read: LECTURE #7
Bittachon: Trust in God
The gemara (Berakhot 33b) tells us, “Everything is in the hands of Heaven except for the fear of Heaven.”
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This might fit into the discussion:
"The opening Mishna in the tractate Bava Mezia is a classic halakhic discussion:
"Two men are holding a cloak [and come before a judge]. This one says: 'I found it,' and the other one says, 'I found it.' If this one says, 'It is all mine,' and the other one says, 'It is all mine,' then this one must swear that he does not own less than a half, and the other must swear that he does not own less than a half and they divide it [dividing means that each gets half of the value of the cloak].
"If this one says: 'It is all mine,' and the other one says, 'It is half mine' [because he believes that they discovered it simultaneously then the one who says, 'It is all mine' must swear that he does not own less than three quarters, and the one who says, 'Half of it is mine' must swear that he does not own less than a quarter, and this one takes three quarters and this one takes one quarter."
The Talmud's discussion of this Mishna is very extensive, and directly and indirectly raises numerous legal nuances. For one thing, since each party concedes that he only found the cloak but never purchased it, what about the man to whom the cloak originally belonged-shouldn't it be returned to him? We must assume, therefore, that the cloak either had been abandoned or that efforts to find the owner had proven futile. (There are extensive laws in the Talmud dealing with restoring lost objects to their owners, based on the biblical laws recorded in Deuteronomy 22:13.)"..............
Luke 15:8-10Last edited by mitzi; August 9th 2010 at 01:26 PM.
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August 9th 2010, 02:21 PM #10
Re: The Cave of the Patriarchs and NT
reading all of : — Matthew 13:1-23
Peter's Epistles #12
The Parable of the Sower
1 Corinthians 3:7 So then neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but God who causes the growth. 8 Now he who plants and he who waters are one; but each will receive his own reward according to his own labor.
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August 9th 2010, 02:38 PM #11
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August 9th 2010, 03:42 PM #12
Re: The Cave of the Patriarchs and NT
If you're wondering about the last two post, consider what you had said "My thought:
The second Exile will last seven times seventy years = seventy times seven years = many times seven years.
Like commented by Rashi on Genesis 4:24,
seventy-seven fold:"
****************
To repeat:
"The opening Mishna in the tractate Bava Mezia is a classic halakhic discussion:
"Two men are holding a cloak [and come before a judge]. This one says: 'I found it,' and the other one says, 'I found it.' If this one says, 'It is all mine,' and the other one says, 'It is all mine,' then this one must swear that he does not own less than a half, and the other must swear that he does not own less than a half and they divide it [dividing means that each gets half of the value of the cloak].
"If this one says: 'It is all mine,' and the other one says, 'It is half mine' [because he believes that they discovered it simultaneously then the one who says, 'It is all mine' must swear that he does not own less than three quarters, and the one who says, 'Half of it is mine' must swear that he does not own less than a quarter, and this one takes three quarters and this one takes one quarter."
**
In May 1967-less than a month before the `Six-day War,
our beloved teacher, Rav Zvi Yehuda Kook, of blessed
memory, on the 19th anniversary of Israeli Independence,
said,
"In those first hours (after the UN vote in Nov. 1947-
Ed. note) I couldn't accept what had been done, with that
awful message, that the prophecy was fulfilled - `My Land
has been divided'! Where is our Hebron - Will we forget
her? And where is our Shechem - Are we forgetting her?
And where is our Jericho - Are we forgetting her? And
where is our Jordan Valley? Where is each speck of earth,
every piece of ground, every square meter of our G-d's
land? Is it in our hands to concede even one millimeter?
No! No!"
As mentioned in this article, there should be four cities and not three - Others cite the four ‘anaqim (“giants”) who dominated the town in antiquity; yet others emphasize the four couples who are buried there: Adam and Eve, Abraham and Sarah, Isaac and Rebecca and Jacob and Leah.
Each representing the Patriarchs and Matriarch ..
Three cities Shechem, Hebron, and Jerusalem all share certain common features:
(This article should list four and not three)
1. The three cities are located in the hill country.
2. The three cities lie in the center (east to west) of Israel. Additionally, Jerusalem lies in the center, north to south, of Eretz Israel
3. The three cities are situated in places of high temperature.
4. Each is associated with a “double”. Shechem is also called Dothan which means “dual wells”, Machpelah is a double cave, and Jerusalem is the double of the heavenly Jerusalem.
5. They are all related to the Levites as two were cities of refuge and the Beit HaMikdash was built in the third city.
6. They are border cities between adjacent tribes. Shechem is between Mannaseh and Ephraim, Hebron is between Judah and Dan, and the Beit HaMikdash is between Benjamin and Judah.
7. They were the only cities purchased for money.
8. All three had something precious from Mitzrayim (Egypt): Jerusalem had the Ark, Hebron had Yaaqov Avinu, and Shechem had Yosef HaTzaddik.
9. All three cities were on the same trade route. “The Way of the Patriarchs” also called the “Ridge Route”
10. Each of these cities is distinctly associated with Avraham Avinu: Moriah with the Akeida, Shechem with his entrance to Eretz Israel, and Machpelah with his burial.
11. Each of these cities is distinctly associated with Yaaqov Avinu: Shechem is where Yaaqov entered the land when returning from Lavan and where he purchased the area of Yosef’s tomb, Jerusalem AKA Beit El with the ladder vision, and Machpelah as his burial place.
12. Each of these is the city of a king. Shechem from whence Avraham Avinu defeated the kings of the world and where Rehoboam was crowned king, Hebron where David HaMelech was crowned King, and Jerusalem where David reigned as king over all Israel.
13. Each of these cities is associated with redemption because each was purchased, for money, after they were promised to Avraham and after Avraham defeated the five kings.
14. Each of these places is associated with an altar. This indicates that each of these places was a place of worship and a place where our fathers expressed their gratefulness to HaShem. Curiously, each of these three is also associated with an altar built by Avraham.
Some say that the name of Judas Iskariot has to be understood as Yehudah Ish-Kiryat, the man from Kiryat Arba.
and also as you've mentioned:
"Arba" we know also from "arba kanfot" = the four corners of the earth.
or "arba ruchot" , the four directions of the earth
Rashi on Genesis 2:7,
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DECREE TO REBUILD JERUSALEM: The 70 Weeks Decreed for Israel & Jerusalem
"Thirteen years after Daniel’s second vision in chapter 8, the Temple at Jerusalem still lay in ruins from Babylon’s attack. The prophet Jeremiah predicted the Babylonian captivity would last 70 years[1], and Daniel was trying to make sense of Jeremiah’s time prophecy concerning his people and the disturbing vision he saw several years earlier. The prophet voiced his dismay: “I was appalled by the vision; it was beyond understanding,” (Daniel 8:27). Daniel was anxious as he prayed for the Holy One of Israel to forgive and restore Israel and the desolate Temple. He cried out in humble petition for the sins of the people of Israel in a Day of Atonement prayer of restoration. During his appeal, the man Gabriel touched Daniel and said, “I have now come to give you insight and understanding… therefore, consider the message and understand the vision,” (Daniel 9:23-24). Heaven’s messenger then relayed time periods and events specific to Israel that would bring an end to sin and finalize the 1,150 day vision he received a decade earlier. “Seventy ‘sevens’ [Hebrew: “shabua”—meaning seven consecutive days; Deuteronomy 16:9; Daniel 10:2] are decreed for your people and your holy city [Jerusalem],” (Daniel 9:24); 70 weeks of seven days equal 490 days."
include this sentence: Today, that test of faith lies just before us. “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it,” (Matthew 7:13-14). May the people of God respond to the events of the last 70 Weeks with wisdom and prayer, knowing that time is short.
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August 11th 2010, 03:50 AM #13
Re: The Cave of the Patriarchs and NT
"Machpelah" from the root "kafal" = to double.
Although the Bible doesn't use this word to describe the Manna, it must have to do with it.
Rashi on Genesis 2:3,
Word used: "mishneh"
Like in Exodus 16:5,
And it shall be on the sixth day that when they prepare what they will bring, it will be double of what they gather every day,
Note: "on the sixth day" = בַּיּוֹם הַשִּׁשִּׁי = "b'yom hashishi" , which alludes as well to the sixth day of the month Sivan = Pentecost. It is a matter of Revelation!
Rashi on Genesis 1:31,
When Jesus said: " i am the bread of life" (John 6:31-35) he must have alluded to this.
And also Revelation 2:17 must allude to this --
To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.
Since with the white stone -- psefos leukos -- you are able to calculate ( psefidzo) teh number of the beast (Revealtion 13:18), being the number of "yom shishi" , i.e. "yom hashishi" with left-out letter "heh" ...
By the way, Mitzi, thanks for the pearls
Last edited by sylvius; August 11th 2010 at 03:55 AM.
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August 13th 2010, 04:33 AM #14
Re: The Cave of the Patriarchs and NT
You're welcome on the pearls:
Tombs of the Patriarchs, Hebron
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August 13th 2010, 04:52 AM #15
Re: The Cave of the Patriarchs and NT
More reading:
The Holiness of Hebron
"Hebron makes its appearance in two important later Scriptural accounts. In the story of the 12 spies sent by Moses to reconnoiter the land of Canaan, Hebron is given as a special gift to Caleb, who alone with Joshua maintained his loyalty to God."
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The Giant Caves of Beit Guvrin
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