The US & Britain in Prophesy:

[Christianbookworm]

I don't see how the USA and UK are any worse than any other country on the planet. North Korea deserves to be nuked out of its misery way more than a couple of developed countries that aren't starving and torturing their citizens for the sake of a dictator. Not to mention that individualistic countries don't do the corporate responsibility thing. Ancient Egypt did have corporate responsibility in their mores. If God treats you like you treat others, then it is great to be able to distancce oneself from jerks and not get the same punishment.

[Marta]

No - the entire Country and every citizen does share the guilt, and that is a point about democracy too that all the people are represented in the Government.

The fact that God might save a few remnant in the final battle is fine, but the guilt of the USA and of Britain is still shared by all their citizens.

I myself do not support the evils of the USA government nor of our evil society, but I accept that I do share the guilt of the guilty.

So you're supportive that if the country is bad then the people are to be blamed, as well, 1 Samuel 14-15, "But if you will not obey the voice of the LORD, but rebel against the commandment of the LORD, then the hand of the LORD will be against you and your king."

Remember the prior verses on this subject.

[Marta]

1 Timothy 3:1-13, 2 Timothy 2:1-13, Titus 1:5-9, Acts 6:1-6, and Exodus 18:21-22.

[James Cusick]

Reply:

I don't see how the USA and UK are any worse than any other country on the planet.

I do not see where I ever said the USA or the UK are worse then others - the point is that they are more blessed than others.

See Luke 12:48b For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

And this = Matthew 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

North Korea deserves to be nuked out of its misery way more than a couple of developed countries that aren't starving and torturing their citizens for the sake of a dictator.

I say North Korea gets an unjust negative rap pushed by the USA.

As like you and other Americans want to "nuke out NK" and is that your Christian idea? or is it the American propaganda speaking? = I see and hear the latter.

North Korea had a peace treaty (an armistice) with the USA in 1953, and it was the USA who broke that treaty in 1957, and as such it remains broken to this day.

Clearly the Americans disregard our own Country violating the treaty, but surely we can determine that God does not ignore that truth.

And NK is criticized as starving its citizens - but again it is the USA who has had a food embargo (near full economic embargo) against North Korea for over a half century, and as such we the USA are starving those people and demanding other nations of the world to do the same.

Not to mention that individualistic countries don't do the corporate responsibility thing. Ancient Egypt did have corporate responsibility in their mores.

I say that God holds us as corporately responsible whether we like it or not.

And both the USA and the UK claim to be democracies which is by definition makes us as corporately responsible for whatever our governments do.

If God treats you like you treat others, then it is great to be able to distance oneself from jerks and not get the same punishment.

If other Countries and peoples do unto us the USA as we the USA have done unto them = then we are in for some really big trouble indeed.

Galatians 6:
7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. KJV

[Christianbookworm]

The USA and UK are not the only developed countries. What about Western Europe, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Japan, and South Korea?

[James Cusick]

Reply:

The USA and UK are not the only developed countries. What about Western Europe, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Japan, and South Korea?

One thing is that when the message talks about "Britain" and the British people then it is (and I am) talking about more than just the UK.

Australia, New Zealand, Canada, are all British people, and I believe they each recognize the UK Monarchy as their own.

Plus places like Japan, Germany, Italy, France, the Philippines, and South Korea, = all those owe their "liberation" and their prosperity to the USA.

Even Russia was saved from the Nazis by massive American military aid during WW2.

There is also the huge influence of the British in China and India and in the Middle East and in South America too.

There really is no place on the planet earth which has not been significantly influenced by either the USA or the British in the past 100 - 400 years.

[Marta]

One thing is that when the message talks about "Britain" and the British people then it is (and I am) talking about more than just the UK.

Australia, New Zealand, Canada, are all British people, and I believe they each recognize the UK Monarchy as their own.

Plus places like Japan, Germany, Italy, France, the Philippines, and South Korea, = all those owe their "liberation" and their prosperity to the USA.

Even Russia was saved from the Nazis by massive American military aid during WW2.

There is also the huge influence of the British in China and India and in the Middle East and in South America too.

There really is no place on the planet earth which has not been significantly influenced by either the USA or the British in the past 100 - 400 years.

[Marta]

Last reply, King David - (and consider this thought) wrote this Psalms, "Do not cast me away from Thy presence, And do not take Thy Holy Spirit from me." When (as with the angel) we lose our luster (our sense of wisdom) it is the spirit from within. A country, like a King, can be guilty (as you say) of great sins. When the spirit within the people (as a group - country) leaves so does the wisdom and knowledge of God - we then lose our way. Correct?

In this thought, when we lose that sense of God - we find ourselves spiraling out of control and often blind to the needs of others - curse of the 9th plague, "No man could see his brother, nor could anyone rise from his place". This is internal blindness, we were created 'first' in the image and likeness of God (Genesis 1), spiritual but then we were given flesh (Genesis 2). So the Psalms that David recites is explain in this way - see the verses as a people within those countries. The soul in man needs to return back to God and there must be away back.

"David now saw, more than ever, what an unclean heart he had, and sadly laments it; but he sees it is not in his own power to amend it, and therefore begs God would create in him a clean heart. When the sinner feels this change is necessary, and reads the promise of God to that purpose, he begins to ask it. He knew he had by his sin grieved the Holy Spirit, and provoked him to withdraw. This he dreads more than anything. He prays that Divine comforts may be restored to him. When we give ourselves cause to doubt our interest in salvation, how can we expect the joy of it? This had made him weak; he prays, I am ready to fall, either into sin or into despair, therefore uphold me with thy Spirit."

[James Cusick]

Reply:

The point and purpose of having a chosen people and chosen nations were to save the rest of humanity through them.

That is the task of the USA and Britain which intensifies in the last (latter) days.

As such the people of Israel (called by the name of Isaac / Saxon) are to save the lost sheep of humanity.

The people of Israel were never the lost sheep - it was the rest of humanity who were lost to God.

Israel was to act as a shepherd and were to save the lost sheep.

The Bible is about God saving all of humanity and not some small group of people - it is the Father getting reconciliation for all His lost children.

[RumTumTugger]

The point and purpose of having a chosen people and chosen nations were to save the rest of humanity through them.

That is the task of the USA and Britain which intensifies in the last (latter) days.

As such the people of Israel (called by the name of Isaac / Saxon) are to save the lost sheep of humanity.

The people of Israel were never the lost sheep - it was the rest of humanity who were lost to God.

Israel was to act as a shepherd and were to save the lost sheep.

The Bible is about God saving all of humanity and not some small group of people - it is the Father getting reconciliation for all His lost children.

Sorry James it is Through Jesus we are saved not anyone else or a country no chosen or otherwise. To say otherwise is heretical.

[James Cusick]

Reply:

Sorry James it is Through Jesus we are saved not anyone else or a country no chosen or otherwise. To say otherwise is heretical.

There are two (2) kinds of salvation.

There is the physical salvation in this life time, and a second salvation in the after death life time.

Much like the "second death" in that there is a physical death in this life time, and a spiritual death in the next life time, and both lead humanity into salvation.

Jesus paid the penalty for everyone to be saved after death, but here and now in this world the physical salvation is far more complicated.

Of course I do accept the name of heretic for myself, and I am thankful that orthodox Christians can no longer burn me alive as was done to my predecessors.

And it is not a big stretch to declare that the USA and the UK saved (they saved) the world from Nazism and its allies.

[TheWall]

Did jesus come to be a king? In one sense yes. However that sense is the only sense. He came to be king over the new heaven and earth and his death is our ransom price. It is up to the individual to accept the free gift of grace. If salvation was communal then we no longer have christianity but a christendom. A socially accepted politically ethic, but that does not save anyone. Christendom did not save in Coppenhagen when Kierkegaard spoke against it neither did the cult of the ss when Dietrich Bonehoeffer preached against it. Now we call ourselves a Christian nation. Not to say that we are all christians but because christian values helped to build this nation.

[Marta]

There are two (2) kinds of salvation.

Of course I do accept the name of heretic for myself, and I am thankful that orthodox Christians can no longer burn me alive as was done to my predecessors.

And it is not a big stretch to declare that the USA and the UK saved (they saved) the world from Nazism and its allies.

[Marta]

Did jesus come to be a king? In one sense yes. However that sense is the only sense. He came to be king over the new heaven and earth and his death is our ransom price. It is up to the individual to accept the free gift of grace. If salvation was communal then we no longer have christianity but a christendom. A socially accepted politically ethic, but that does not save anyone. Christendom did not save in Coppenhagen when Kierkegaard spoke against it neither did the cult of the ss when Dietrich Bonehoeffer preached against it. Now we call ourselves a Christian nation. Not to say that we are all christians but because christian values helped to build this nation.

John 6:37, "All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away." Grace is a gift.

John 6: 37 is in line with, "You shall "love" the Lord "Your" God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. What is loving God "with all your heart?" When your deepest desire is to fulfill His will.

For example, consider someone who has a meaningful career that requires him to work on Shabbat. Love of God means that if your career does not align with what God wants, then you're resigned to give it up. Not because you agree to suffer, but because it's no longer your desire. You've reached the level where your will, and the will of God, become one.

What is loving God "with all your soul?" That's using all your energy and talents to serve God. Even if it involves pain or humiliation. And even if it means going so far as to give up your life. LINK Renascence

"The Father's will is, that not one of those who were given to the Son, should be rejected or lost by him. No one will come, till Divine grace has subdued, and in part changed his heart; therefore no one who comes will ever be cast out." Matthew Henry Commentary

[Marta]

The point and purpose of having a chosen people and chosen nations were to save the rest of humanity through them.

That is the task of the USA and Britain which intensifies in the last (latter) days.

As such the people of Israel (called by the name of Isaac / Saxon) are to save the lost sheep of humanity.

The people of Israel were never the lost sheep - it was the rest of humanity who were lost to God.

Israel was to act as a shepherd and were to save the lost sheep.

The Bible is about God saving all of humanity and not some small group of people - it is the Father getting reconciliation for all His lost children.

Fullness: LINK

"In Romans 11, Paul discusses the fate of the nation of Israel, which has rejected its Messiah. Beginning in verse 11, Paul explains God's purpose in Israel's unbelief. He says that God's plan is to use Israel's unbelief to bring about the salvation of the Gentiles, which in turn will provoke Israel to faith in their own Messiah. Then in verse 12, he contrasts the results of Israel's transgression/defeat for the world with the results of their "fullness" for the world. Paul does not spell out the results here, but verse 15 speaks of "life from the dead." This phrase has been interpreted to mean either an extensive turning to faith in Christ by the Gentiles or the actual resurrection in conjunction with the return of Christ. But it seems clear that in this context, "fullness" refers to an extensive acceptance of Jesus as the Messiah by the nation of Israel. The illustration of the olive tree in verses 17-24 makes the point that God is able to regraft the natural branches (unbelieving Israelites) back into their own olive tree (salvation brought about through Israel's Messiah).

The conclusion of Paul's treatment of Israel's unbelief is presented in 11:25-32. In verse 26 he clearly states that through God's plan the nation of Israel will be saved, brought to faith in Jesus. Israel's temporary unbelief will last only until the "fullness" of the Gentiles comes about (v. 25). Although the meaning of this entire passage is intensely debated, this verse seems to refer to the complete number of the elect among the Gentiles who must be saved before the conversion of Israel and the coming of Christ.

In Romans 13:10, Paul asserts that the "fullness" or complete purpose of the law is love. He speaks of himself in 15:29 as coming to the church at Rome in the "fullness of the blessing of Christ." Both are straightforward statements about the completeness of abundance that the word "fullness" implies."


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Question: "What are the times of the Gentiles?"