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Thread: The US & Britain in Prophesy:

  1. #21
    tWebber Bisto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Cusick View Post
    The Countries are important to God, and the entire world events are important to God, and it does not really mean that other Countries or places are of less importance.
    True. And it does not follow from this that "God MUST HAVE spoken of any of them to ancient Israel or the 1st-century Church, or else those messages are not from Him." (I'm paraphrasing)
    Quote Originally Posted by James Cusick View Post
    As like the foundation of a house is super important and yet it is mostly invisible, and so the house itself seems far more important then the unseen foundation.
    And the foundation of the world is neither of those countries. Oh, they are important in lots of ways, for sure, and have been for a while and will remain being so for a while I guess, but seriously, the world is old, with big and small governments coming and going -- and it is young, we may have centuries and millenia ahead of us, perhaps with countless civilizations to come before the Lord returns. Both countries may come to be nothing but memories and passages of history, however great or beautiful they were while they lasted, just like so many other things and nations throughout the ages. It is God's message and kingdom in Christ Jesus that will outlast all of these.
    Quote Originally Posted by James Cusick View Post
    The USA and Great Britain are important both for their accomplishments and for their extensive and wanton sins.
    Respectfully: there is nothing new under the sun.

    Quote Originally Posted by James Cusick View Post
    I myself hate it when some one post a long link to read as it is asking too much from people and here I posted an entire book to read.

    So to shorten the message that book is basically summarized in its Chapter 9, linked HERE.
    Thanks. However, it seems to me that the contents of this link differ from the summary you offer below.

    Quote Originally Posted by James Cusick View Post
    That is a BIG challenge and I like challenges so I will try to summarize the point.

    The point of that message is that God is in control of the entire earth and all of humanity, and we humans are being played and orchestrated to the will of God and that is a fact and a TRUTH.
    I didn't really get that message from your link, which seemed to be more about relating the tribes of Israel to some western countries through weird Bible reading and weird semantics. Anyway, this reads like a hardcore Calvinistic sovereignty of God in all affairs. While I respect this position to some extent (a good friend of mine holds a similar view, though I am not sure he'd say we are "played and orchestrated"), I do not hold it.
    Quote Originally Posted by James Cusick View Post
    That message of prophesy makes so that we do not have to just believe, because through it we can know the extraordinary truth that God is not just real but that God is actively involved in our human existence.
    I am not sure I understood this sentence correctly. I will try to rephrase it, partly taking hints from other posts of yours throughout the thread; please let me know if I am misstating your point. My questions or comments are in [brackets]:

    "The message of prophecy [what prophecy exactly, again????] makes us not only believe the gospel blindly [who said we were believing blindly, or had to believe blindly, to begin with????], because through this message of prophecy, we can know that God is not just real [is God's existence really THE one message we believe and are trying to communicate as Christians????], but that God is actively involved in our human existence [I agree with this phrase, but apparently not in the way you mean it]. The fact that He is actively involved in our human existence is extraordinary [I agree with this too, but again, probably not with the implications you appear to give to it]"


    Cheers,

    Bisto.
    Last edited by Bisto; 04-04-2017 at 08:27 PM.
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  2. #22
    tWebber James Cusick's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Reply:

    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    Now you're just shoehorning dates to fit your already pre-determined conclusion. You previously declared:
    But Britain did not "[dominate] the entire earth" since 1603. Far from it.
    I do not mean to present myself as infallible or absolute.

    My point is just that the time date can be argued and a precise date is not really necessary.

    I said "dominant" in the first place and that is not the criteria even when dominance is a sign.

    If I am wrong about the date then so be it, but the message is still true.

    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    Many other European powers also had empires that were global in extent during this time. Spain was well entrenched in North America (Mexico and the Carribean), controlled nearly all of South America, and had colonies in Africa and Asia as well. France arguably had more territory in North America under their control than did Britain (although not for long -- but Britain would also lose control of a great deal of their holdings in North America as well), South America, huge swaths of Africa, and scattered but significant holdings in Asia.
    The message is shortened in that book to make it easier to understand and easier to share with others - it is not meant to be an encyclopedia.

    The other nations really are explained in the scriptures but too much information just clouds and obscures the message.

    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    Britain, as I said, would not become the predominant world power until post-Napoleonic times.
    That is fine with me since you insist, but I do not necessarily agree, and that is just not very important.

    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    That's just, pardon my bluntness, just nuts. Aside from the fact that the 21st cent. has just begun, does the Bible mention the dominance that Spain and Portugal enjoyed during the 15th and 16th centuries as well? If not do you think that means that the Bible cannot be prophesy from God? Does the Bible mention the Mongolian domination from Genghis Khan's time and through his many successors? Or the Muslim caliphates? Could it be little more than blatant egocentric pride and hubris that makes one claim that if the U.S. and Britain's current dominance is not alluded to in Scripture then it cannot be considered prophesy from God?
    The message is shortened in that book to make it easier to understand and easier to share with others - it is not meant to be an encyclopedia.

    The other nations really are explained in the scriptures but too much information just clouds and obscures the message.

    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    Let me get this straight, Jesus explicitly told us that no man knows when the end times will be but some schumck hawking a book on the topic, one that he was selling for a prophet, did? IOW, God informed someone so he could turn around and sell the knowledge. That is your position?
    Jesus said that no one knows the time or hour (or the specific date) but we can see the signs of the times.

  3. #23
    tWebber James Cusick's Avatar
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    Red face Reply:

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    I see what ya did thar.
    If you do not want to discuss the topic then that is fine,

    but I see no reason for you to keep trying to derail any discussion.


    -------------------------------------

    Quote Originally Posted by Littlejoe View Post
    Thank you very much for the link to the summary, makes it much easier to see the message...
    You are welcome.

    Some one else showed that summary to me years ago, and I never feel secure just posting chapter 9 without first giving the main page index.

    My feeling there might not be sound.

    Quote Originally Posted by Littlejoe View Post
    It's readily apparent that the author had extremely poor exegetical skill as practically every point has partial verses cobbled together with another partial verse...(sometimes as few as 2 or 3 words per verse.) Take for instance the this point:
    Source: Chapter Nine Summary

    According to Hosea 12:1: "Ephraim . . . followeth after the east wind." An "east wind" travels west. Ephraim must have gone west from Assyria. When the Eternal swore to David that He would perpetuate his throne, He said: "I will set his hand [sceptre] also in the sea" (Ps. 89:25). The throne is to be "set," planted, "in the sea." -

    © Copyright Original Source

    There is a long version - HERE.

    So shorter and easier is much preferred by me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Littlejoe View Post
    Here the author totally misses the metaphoric language of prophecy and ascribes a literal interpretation to a concept that in pretty much every other instance in the Bible is known to be metaphoric. The "East Wind" is judgement from God in pretty much every instance in scripture. So, the prophecy isn't saying that Ephraim "went west" it's saying that God's judgement was on Ephraim and that Ephraim followed destruction...it's one of the reasons Ephraim is one of "The Lost" tribes...
    Lots of the Bible is metaphor, but this message is not.

    The "east wind" does not mean judgement - it means traveling or blowing west.

  4. #24
    tWebber Bisto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Cusick View Post
    The "east wind" does not mean judgement - it means traveling or blowing west.
    Honestly, I had never heard the claim LJ made here, but after looking up "east wind" in the OT, there does seem to be some correlation between that phrase and judgement. Read the instances yourself. What do you think?
    We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore on Christ's behalf: 'Be reconciled to God!!'
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  5. Amen Littlejoe amen'd this post.
  6. #25
    Professor Littlejoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Cusick View Post
    You are welcome.

    Some one else showed that summary to me years ago, and I never feel secure just posting chapter 9 without first giving the main page index.

    My feeling there might not be sound.


    There is a long version - HERE.

    So shorter and easier is much preferred by me.


    Lots of the Bible is metaphor, but this message is not.

    The "east wind" does not mean judgement - it means traveling or blowing west.
    No it doesn't. There are approx. 17 references to the East Wind that are found in the KJV of the Bible. In chapter 41 of Genesis, the pharaoh's dream, that is interpreted by Joseph, describes seven ears of grain blasted by the east wind. In chapters 10 and 14 of Exodus, the east wind is summoned by Moses to bring the locusts that plague Egypt and to part the Red Sea so that the Children of Israel can escape and ultimately destroy pharaoh's armies. Job 15: 2 says, if a wise man utters “vain” or empty words, he fills his stomach with “east wind”. And look, just a few chapters over in the same book (Hosea) in 13:15 it says: 15 even though he thrives among his brothers. An east wind from the LORD will come, blowing in from the desert; his spring will fail and his well dry up. His storehouse will be plundered of all its treasures. And there are others, most associating the east wind with destruction. Most often, this destruction is of the wicked by God...so no, it doesn't mean "blowing west"...but nice try!
    "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

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  7. #26
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Cusick View Post
    If you do not want to discuss the topic then that is fine,

    but I see no reason for you to keep trying to derail any discussion.
    Keep trying? That was my first post in this thread. Loosen up a bit.


  8. #27
    tWebber James Cusick's Avatar
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    Red face Reply:

    Quote Originally Posted by Bisto View Post
    Honestly, I had never heard the claim LJ made here, but after looking up "east wind" in the OT, there does seem to be some correlation between that phrase and judgement. Read the instances yourself. What do you think?
    It is fine by me to view judgements into that word but still east wind means = wind blowing westward.

    I expect that we could describe the entire Bible as giving judgments and yet still = an east wind means an east wind.

    I would even say that in context it was a banishment to the west so that is a judgement.


    -------------------------------------------

    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    But Britain did not "[dominate] the entire earth" since 1603. Far from it.
    In my repentance - I was asked to give a reason and I said dominance and it was a poor choice of words on my part.

    A better reply would have been from the reference book and from the Bible so here I will try again to make amends:

    Genesis 48:
    18 And Joseph said unto his father, Not so, my father: for this is the firstborn; put thy right hand upon his head.
    19 And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations.
    20 And he blessed them that day, saying, In thee shall Israel bless, saying, God make thee as Ephraim and as Manasseh: and he set Ephraim before Manasseh.
    ---

    This is saying that the one will be a great nation (the USA) and the other a multitude of nations (Great Britain).

    And it was not talking about the Jewish people (tribe of Judah) because the first mention of the Jews in the Bible the Jews are at war with Israel - see 2 Kings 16:5-7

    The dominance is a part but it is just not the criteria.

  9. #28
    tWebber Faber's Avatar
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    To quote a well-known despicable politician, "What difference-at this point, what difference does it make?"

    Quote Originally Posted by James Cusick View Post
    And it was not talking about the Jewish people (tribe of Judah) because the first mention of the Jews in the Bible the Jews are at war with Israel
    Jacob was telling Joseph is Genesis 48:19 that Ephraim would have more descendants than Manasseh. His descendants would be a multitude of goyim. At that time, everybody was a goy, including Jacob, Joseph, Ephraim and Manasseh.

    As far as a multitude of nations, the Israelites were scattered all over, first by the Assyrians who forced most of them into Media, then by the Persians, then by Alexander. They're probably all over and blended in with all the nations in the middle east.

    As far as Britain and America being descendants, so what? The ten tribes were evil, idolatrous rebels whose nation God destroyed because of their rebellion against Him. Who in his right mind would want to claim to be a descendant of that?

    And Read Romans 3:22 and 10:12. There is no difference between the Jew and the Gentile. Also Acts 15:9. So again, "at this point, what difference does it make?"

  10. #29
    tWebber James Cusick's Avatar
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    Wink Reply:

    Quote Originally Posted by Faber View Post
    To quote a well-known despicable politician, "What difference-at this point, what difference does it make?"

    As far as Britain and America being descendants, so what?
    That message gives us realistic assurance that God is actively in control of the entire planet earth and of all human history and activity, and that message gives us factual proof for the real existence of God as an active reality.

    That message also opens up the Bible to a far more real and dynamic interpretation which people can more easily understand.

    Plus it is just the truth, and the truth will set us free, and the truth has inherent power in itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Faber View Post
    And Read Romans 3:22 and 10:12. There is no difference between the Jew and the Gentile. Also Acts 15:9. So again, "at this point, what difference does it make?"
    There is a difference between Israel and Jewish, and different from Gentile.

    So yes it makes a lot of difference.

    The people who were given the birthright promise were to be called after the name of Isaac = as in Saxon (sons of Isaac).

    Genesis 21:12 "... for in Isaac shall thy seed be called."

  11. #30
    Thanks Old Man... Bill the Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Cusick View Post

    The people who were given the birthright promise were to be called after the name of Isaac = as in Saxon (sons of Isaac).
    tEDVQsS.gif


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