Thread: 1 John 3:2
August 17th 2010, 07:28 AM #1
1 John 3:2
Dear John Reece,
"It's been a year since my last confession"
Actually, it has been more than a year since a thread about this passage, was posted here. (Refer: 1 John 3:2 - addressee) After I had finished blushing at my own posts, I began reading your exchanges with apostoli, which start on page 2: post 17 , I realized that it is probably time to bring all the bits and pieces together in one.
Whereas in years gone by, I did not enjoy 1 John or James, I have found both to be priceless gems and dare I say razor sharp doctrinal declarations of the Christian faith.
If I had the time and experience, I would have attempted doing what you have been doing with Revelation and John, but I have neither and so am happy to stand in line for a crumb from the Master's table. I do have Moo's commentary on James, so I guess I have more than a crumb or two, in regard to that book.
This thread is hopefully going to be a trigger that leads to a thorough going through of 1 John. (I can only hope )
So, to my question.
Would you please surrender a full translation (English-Greek) and commentary/s of 1 John 3:2 ?
(I had a look at the Commentary list, and from the look of things Jaltus comes up with four commentators [Brown, Marshall, Schnakenberg and Stott], but succeeds in finding flaws with each one, so if you have a better selection, you know I will be greatly appreciative).
I am in no particular hurry, and I hope that the linked discussion ( 1 John 3:2 - addressee ) will act as a fractured pencil outline, where you can fill in the missing parts, or at least attempt to assemble something a little more full-bodied/mature translation and commentary.
Eric J. Sawyer.
August 17th 2010, 01:45 PM #2
1 John 3:2
NA27 Text (1 John 3:2):ἀγαπητοί, νῦν τέκνα θεοῦ ἐσμεν, καὶ οὔπω ἐφανερώθη τί ἐσόμεθα. οἴδαμεν ὅτι ἐὰν φανερωθῇ, ὅμοιοι αὐτῷ ἐσόμεθα, ὅτι ὀψόμεθα αὐτὸν καθώς ἐστιν.
Transliteration:agapētoi, nyn tekna theou esmen, kai oupō ephanerōthē ti esometha. oidamen hoti ean phanerōthȩ̄, homoioi autō̧ esometha, hoti opsometha auton kathōs estin.
Translation (NET):Dear friends, we are God’s children now, and what we will be has not yet been revealed. We know that whenever it* is revealed we will be like him, because we will see him just as he is.
*Many take the understood subject ("he") of φανερωθῇ (phanerōthȩ̄) as a reference to Jesus Christ, because the same verb was used in 2:28 in reference to the parousia (second advent). In the immediate context, however, a better analogy is ἐφανερώθη τί ἐσόμεθα (ephanerōthē ti esometha) in 3:2a. There the clause τί ἐσόμεθα is the subject of the passive verb "what we shall be has not yet been revealed." From a grammatical standpoint it makes better sense to see the understood subject of φανερωθῇ as "it" rather than "he" and as referring back to the clause τί ἐσόμεθα in 3:2a. In the context this makes good sense: "Beloved, now we are children of God, and what we shall be has not yet been revealed. We know that whenever it shall be revealed we shall be like him, because we shall see him just as he is." This emphasizes the contrast in the verse between the present state ("not yet been revealed") and the future state ("shall be revealed") of believers, and this will of course take place at the parousia.
ἀγαπητός : beloved.
οὔπω : not yet.
ἐφανερώθη : it has not been revealed aorist passive of φανερόω make evident/known.
φανερωθῇ : aorist passive subjunctive of φανερόω ; passive intransitive appear, ἐάν sometimes approximating to ὅταν whenever, when.
ὅμοιος : like.
ὀψόμεθα : future of ὁράω see.
ὅτι : explains not our destiny but our recognition of it.
August 17th 2010, 08:22 PM #3
1 John 3:2
From The Letters of John (TNTC; Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1964, 1988), by John R. W. Stott:
2. The author calls his readers dear friends (agapētoi), 'beloved') because those who are loved by the Father are loved by the apostle also. He then moves on from the reiteration now are we children of God (whether the world recognizes us or not) to a consideration of what we will be, for 'we look ... for an inheritance in virtue of that sonship' (Alford). At first he frankly admits that he does not know the precise character of this inheritance. What we are does not now appear to the world; what we shall be does not yet appear to us. It is important to note this apostolic confession of ignorance. His earlier statement that the 'anointing teaches you about all things' (2:27) is not to be pressed literally. The Christian is not omniscient. The New Testament apostles, like the Old Testament prophets, knew what it had been God's purpose to disclose to them, and no more (cf. Deu 3:24; 1 Cor 13:8-12). So here John confesses that the exact state and condition of the redeemed in heaven had not been revealed to him. This being so, it is idle and sinful to speculate or to pry into things which God has not been pleased to make known. Indeed, it is implied , it will appear only when he will appear.* he will appear. The two revelations, of Christ and of our final state, will be made simultaneously. For then we shall 'share in his glory' (Rom 8:17; cf. Col 3:4).
*NEB ('when it is disclosed') and NIV margin ('when it is made known') both follow RV margin and many commentators in taking as the subject of the verb phanerōthȩ̄, as of the previous ephanerōthē, not Christ but 'what we shall be'. It could be either. No subject is supplied in the Greek.This does not mean, however, that we know nothing about our future state. We do know this, that when he appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. The sequence is clear. First, he will appear; in consequence, we will see him as he is; and so we shall be like him. (For references to 'seeing God or Christ in heaven, cf. Mt 5:8; Jn 17:24; 1 Cor 13:12; 2 Cor 5:7; Heb 12:14; 1 Pet 1:8; Rev 1:7; 22:24). Already the image of God, marred by the fall, has been stamped upon us again. The new nature, which we assumed at our conversion, was 'created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness (Eph 4:24; cf. 1 Col 3:10). And since that day, in fulfillment of God's predestinating purpose that we should be 'conformed to the likeness of his Son (Rom 8:29), the Holy Spirit has been transfiguring us 'into his likeness with ever-increasing glory' (2 Cor 3:18; cf.1 Jn 2:6). In this latter passage the transformation is said to be due to the fact that 'with unveiled faces" we 'all reflect the Lord's glory. This being so, it is understandable that when we see him as he is, and not our face only but his too will be unveiled, we will be finally and completely like him, including our bodies (Phil 3:21; cf. 1 Cor 15:49). 'Vision becomes assimilation' (Law). This is all John knows about our final, heavenly state. Paul concentrates in his letters on the truth that in heaven we shall be 'with 'Christ' (2 Cor 5:8; Phi 1:23; Col 3:4; 1 Thes 4:17; cf. Lk 23:43; Jn 14:3; 17:24). It is enough for us to know that on the last day and through eternity we shall be both with Christ and like Christ; for the fuller revelation of what we are going to be we are content to wait.
August 17th 2010, 08:23 PM #4
Re: 1 John 3:2
I am busy doing a little mind bank search ( my brain ), to see if I can remember any specific passages of Scripture which describe our future state, and our state should we die/sleep before the second advent. < I hope I have the correct word, as these terms are puzzling to me at the moment. I used to avoid getting into eschatalogical discussions, until lately. However, I am finding RC Sproul's The Last Days According to Jesus , is helping me familiarize myself with the terminology. (It's in video format - here. )
Thanks for the translation and commentary. If you have any book you might recommend me to get a fuller grasp of Orthodox Preterism, I would greatly appreciate that. I mean a book, other than the Bible
Sincerely in Christ,
Eric J. Sawyer
ps. I see you are awake. It is 1.25am here.
ps2. We posted simultaneously, and John Stott's commentary is thick with gems! Excellent!
Last edited by headheart; August 17th 2010 at 08:30 PM.
August 17th 2010, 08:29 PM #5
August 17th 2010, 08:32 PM #6
Re: 1 John 3:2
I see it now, and it is really great! I managed to get a copy of John's book 'The Cross of Christ' and love his rich style of writing. He brings so much to the party, it is a blessing just to read what he writes.
Oh, that's okay, I have a nice juicy list to go through. I just thought you might have a special read, for someone like myself who knows more about a bar of soap than Orthodox Preterism.
August 17th 2010, 08:34 PM #7
August 17th 2010, 08:38 PM #8
August 17th 2010, 08:43 PM #9
August 17th 2010, 08:51 PM #10
Re: 1 John 3:2
Right back at yer, mate.
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