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Unorthodox Theology 201 Guidelines

Theists only.

This forum area is primarily for persons who would identify themselves as Christians whether or not their theology is recognized within the mainstream or as orthodox though other theists may participate with moderator permission. Therefore those that would be restricted from posting in Christianity 201 due to a disagreement with the enumerated doctrines, ie the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment may freely post here on any theological subject matter. In this case "unorthodox" is used in the strict sense of a person who denies what has been declared as universal essentials of the historic Christian faith. Examples would be adherents to Oneness, Full Preterists, Unitarian Universalist Christians, Gnostics, Liberal Christianity, Christian Science to name a few.

The second purpose will be for threads on subjects, which although the thread starter has no issue with the above doctrines, the subject matter is so very outside the bounds of normative Christian doctrine totally within the leadership's discretion that it is placed here. In so doing, no judgment or offense is intended to be placed on the belief of said person in the above-doctrines. In this case "unorthodox" is used in a much looser sense of "outside the norms" - Examples of such threads would be pro-polygamy, pro-drug use, proponents of gay Christian churches, proponents of abortion.

The third purpose is for persons who wish to have input from any and all who would claim the title of Christian even on subjects that would be considered "orthodox."

The philosophy behind this area was to recognize that there are persons who would identify themselves as Christian and thus seem out of place in the Comparative Religions Forum, but yet in keeping with our committment here to certain basic core Christian doctrines. Also, it allows threads to be started by those who would want to still be identified as Christian with a particular belief that while not denying an essential is of such a nature that the discussion on that issue belongs in this section or for threads by persons who wish such a non-restricted discussion.


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  • #31
    Reply:

    Originally posted by 37818 View Post
    Alright. On the premise what you understand about this is true. What difference does it make that everyone else makes claims to contrary? It will not change the truth. Now on the other hand your view if false: It condemns the lost by causing them to miss the real good news which must be accepted (2 Thessalonians 1:8; 2 Corinthians 4:3-4).
    The premises (my reason) would be that I do not like those others who preach fear and preach slander against God, and if I believe other people to be sincere as I am then I want to know the truth and so I am doing them a favor by telling this message to correct my worldly brothers and sisters.

    If I were on the Titanic and I was able to save myself, then I believe I have an obligation to go back and help save the others less fortunate.

    Hebrews 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

    ---------------------------

    Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
    Indeed. If universalism were true, there'd be no need to try to convince others that it's true. If it's false, then it's a dangerous heresy.
    It is true, and yet I agree about having no real need to convince others, and I am not out preaching to others or from the roof tops, but this here is a discussion forum so to discuss it here seems appropriate.

    Otherwise if some fools or barbarians will act better out of their fear of Hell then there is no need for me to convince them otherwise.

    Comment


    • #32
      Reply:

      Originally posted by JimL View Post
      Then what's the whole point?
      The point is for God to raise His children into Gods.

      To give birth to the children of God.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by James Cusick View Post
        The point is for God to raise His children into Gods.

        To give birth to the children of God.
        Isn't it the Mormons that have the infinite regress of gods and human aliens?
        If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by James Cusick View Post
          The point is for God to raise His children into Gods.

          To give birth to the children of God.
          But if God himself has to end up "burning away their sins", then the whole "raising his children" idea is silly.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by James Cusick View Post
            The premises (my reason) would be that I do not like those others who preach fear and preach slander against God, and if I believe other people to be sincere as I am then I want to know the truth and so I am doing them a favor by telling this message to correct my worldly brothers and sisters.

            If I were on the Titanic and I was able to save myself, then I believe I have an obligation to go back and help save the others less fortunate.
            Let's go with that analogy. We know that not everyone on the Titanic was saved, only those that got into the lifeboats. Now suppose you went around telling everyone not to worry that they were all safe! No need to run to the lifeboats, because the Titanic was not sinking after all and they would not be drowned.

            That is what you are doing. You are telling everyone that they don't have to do anything and they are safe from hell. Go on murdering, killing, stealing. It doesn't matter because they are saved regardless! No need to repent! No need to accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior! Just go about their lives and they will end up in heaven. If people believe you and you are wrong, you are basically condemning people to hell who might have been saved, and definitely making sure that some people who might have accepted Jesus and been better people, instead keep on being selfish and evil.

            Nice work!

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by JimL View Post
              But if God himself has to end up "burning away their sins", then the whole "raising his children" idea is silly.
              Maybe he thinks God will just put the naughty wittle humans in their time out crates and then give them treats when they behave? We aren't spoiled lap dogs!
              If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by James Cusick View Post
                The premises (my reason) would be that I do not like those others who preach fear and preach slander against God, and if I believe other people to be sincere as I am then I want to know the truth and so I am doing them a favor by telling this message to correct my worldly brothers and sisters. Otherwise if some fools or barbarians will act better out of their fear of Hell then there is no need for me to convince them otherwise.
                Here we have some agreement.

                The message of Jesus Christ is one of hope and forgiveness and that is the message that should be preached. Yes, it is true that many preachers slander God by attributing to Him actions/motivations which are unjust - the gospel isn't about fear but to hear some preachers one would think otherwise. That said, it is sin that brings death and separation from God (and not God Himself) so to the extent that you're tossing out the consequences of sin in an effort to defend God would be the extent to which I'd consider you wrong.

                The consequences of sin and death are real - the error is attributing them to God - the solution isn't pretending they don't exist.
                Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by James Cusick View Post
                  It is true, and yet I agree about having no real need to convince others, and I am not out preaching to others or from the roof tops, but this here is a discussion forum so to discuss it here seems appropriate.

                  Otherwise if some fools or barbarians will act better out of their fear of Hell then there is no need for me to convince them otherwise.

                  Romans 10 pretty much blows this premise out of the water. The Apostle Paul felt it VERY important to "convince others"...

                  Scripture Verse: Romans 10:8 - 17

                  8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); 9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. 11 For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. 13 For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

                  14 How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard?[c] And how are they to hear without someone preaching? 15 And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!” 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?” 17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.

                  © Copyright Original Source



                  It clearly says that the ones who will be saved are those "...who call on him."
                  "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

                  "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by James Cusick View Post
                    All of those are misguided and misinterpretations.

                    The old Greek word for Hell was Hades from the old Greek religion, and Hades was the God of the underworld.

                    The Gospel is written in the old Greek language yes, but Jesus did not preach the Greek religion.
                    The word Hades was also used as a term for the underworld or afterlife. Jesus most certainly did teach about the afterlife, and about rewards and punishments. In 2 Peter Tartarus is specifically mentioned(although often translated as "hell"), which was the Greek version of what people today call Hell. Elysium was their version of "Heaven". Sharing certain concepts doesn't require sharing theology. Just like Muslims have their version of Heaven where good Muslim men get at least 72 virgins. As well as their own version of hell, which is extremely similar to Dante's Inferno.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
                      Indeed. If universalism were true, there'd be no need to try to convince others that it's true. If it's false, then it's a dangerous heresy.
                      Pascal would be proud.
                      We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore on Christ's behalf: 'Be reconciled to God!!'
                      - 2 Corinthians 5:20.
                      In deviantArt: ll-bisto-ll.deviantart.com
                      Christian art and more: Christians.deviantart.com

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by James Cusick View Post
                        The premises (my reason) would be that I do not like those others who preach fear and preach slander against God, and if I believe other people to be sincere as I am then I want to know the truth and so I am doing them a favor by telling this message to correct my worldly brothers and sisters.

                        If I were on the Titanic and I was able to save myself, then I believe I have an obligation to go back and help save the others less fortunate.

                        Hebrews 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

                        --------------------------
                        The apostle Paul warns, ". . . For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences. . ." -- 2 Corinthians 5:10-11.
                        . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                        . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                        Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                          The apostle Paul warns, ". . . For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences. . ." -- 2 Corinthians 5:10-11.
                          Yeah, the bible says a lot of things, a lot of conflicting things and a lot of silly things, which is why believers all seem to believe different things.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by JimL View Post
                            Yeah, the bible says a lot of things, a lot of conflicting things and a lot of silly things, which is why believers all seem to believe different things.
                            Jim,
                            This is a theist only area. If you do not have permission to post here from the OP and the mod staff, you will have to cease posting.

                            "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

                            "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

                            Comment


                            • #44




























                              Somebody had to do it

                              I'm always still in trouble again

                              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Littlejoe View Post
                                Romans 10 pretty much blows this premise out of the water. The Apostle Paul felt it VERY important to "convince others"...

                                Scripture Verse: Romans 10:8 - 17

                                8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); 9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. 11 For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. 13 For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

                                14 How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard?[c] And how are they to hear without someone preaching? 15 And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!” 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?” 17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.

                                © Copyright Original Source



                                It clearly says that the ones who will be saved are those "...who call on him."
                                He has said he believes nonbelievers will repent at or around Final Judgement, if I understood him correctly. Under that model, I guess he'd say they would "call on him" then.


                                @JC:

                                Last time I discussed with an Universalist years ago, one of the points I made and which I think is important has to do with Repentance. Salvation comes about through repentance and faith (I think we can all agree that both of those can only come about by the grace of God).

                                The Universalist I discussed with believed that the Lake of Fire/Gehenna/"Hell" as orthodox Christianity understands it, was a place of 'purifying fire' and that people who end up there --Satan included-- would eventually repent, and therefore be saved in the end. To him, my basic reply was that he was ignoring the basic significance of Judgment Day, and all the passages that convey the 'ultimateness' of the judgment/hell/shame/destruction/whatever.

                                You, on the other hand, seem to believe they will repent on Judgment Day itself. What, then, do you make of passages that affirm that some WILL be judged unfavorably -- e.g. some people will go to Jesus' proverbial left hand, names not found on the book of life, enemies of YHWH finally shamed, carcasses outside, dogs outside, etc.?
                                We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore on Christ's behalf: 'Be reconciled to God!!'
                                - 2 Corinthians 5:20.
                                In deviantArt: ll-bisto-ll.deviantart.com
                                Christian art and more: Christians.deviantart.com

                                Comment

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