Is Baptism a Requirement for Salvation?

[Livelystone]

If you will accept my apologies, I am not available at the present to respond. I am on my last week at my current job with no real prospect on where I am going next. My situation would probably elicit a less than hospitable response at the present, so please forgive me for putting this off for a few weeks.

Thanks

Bill

@Bill

Thanks for the heads-up Bill!

What can I say but I wish you the best in both your referral and in your future. Hopefully and if not sooner than the end of the week you will get a chance to respond again.

Blessings

@Jesus freak

I'm going to be doing chores for a few hours, God willing I will get a chance to respond tonight

[Livelystone]

Thank you, just what I have been trying to get across on another thread. The temple of God is WITHIN us and is not some building. It is called the temple made without hands. The Spirit of God, the Christ rules from within us. The inner becomes the outer and the outer becomes the inner....hence they are ONE.

Regards
Gatsby

Hi Gatsby

Not sure if you're going to ever get anyone here to understand that the truth behind the doctrine of baptisms that is required knowledge of us to understand and assimilate before God is allowed to move us on into perfection, has to do with our spirit and soul that live within our physical bodies and are the real “us”.

Also, the phrase doctrine of baptisms” correctly represents the plural form because there were 3 baptisms designated in the Old Testament just as there are 3 baptisms in the New Testament.

Blessings to you

Doug

[Bill the Cat]

No, I did not say that!

In fact, the Scriptures say that they without us shall not be made perfect! Perfection is something that comes from God however selection does on our part require knowledge of certain things. (He.6:1-2)

Sorry for the delay in answering. Still searching for a job

Before we go on would you please explain to me where you get your information about the laver of the tabernacle in the wilderness being used only for the washing of the hands and feet of the Levitical priest?

Exo 30:17 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
Exo 30:18 Thou shalt also make a laver of brass, and his foot also of brass, to wash withal: and thou shalt put it between the tabernacle of the congregation and the altar, and thou shalt put water therein.
Exo 30:19 For Aaron and his sons shall wash their hands and their feet thereat:
Exo 30:20 When they go into the tabernacle of the congregation, they shall wash with water, that they die not; or when they come near to the altar to minister, to burn offering made by fire unto the LORD:
Exo 30:21 So they shall wash their hands and their feet, that they die not: and it shall be a statute for ever to them, even to him and to his seed throughout their generations.

[gary cook]

Water Baptism is Not! salvation is a free Gift !nothing we do can earn it! We just accept His gospel as truth and Him from our heart [Spirit] as LORD and master ! It simple but few have it1 It a relationship Forever more! Has nothing to do with churches or religions or others !It one on One forever more !it a true LOVE story, between our Creator as Father thur Jesus Christ ! He accepts us as we are! We are then given a new spirit and his Spirit then dwells in our spirit ! Only our spirit has salvation1 our flesh mind and body Return too the dust of the earth! gone forever more ! He does not want us bound to anything , But Love and Faith ! all religions just want to use us to build there own kingdoms! He said ? My sheep hear my Voice and follow me ! We only follow HIM! He called us to live in Freedom! i love church ,but do not follow it or the pastor! My teacher is the Holy Ghost!

[goldie08]

In the Hindu religion there is a similar reference to being baptized and that the "son of man" becomes again absorbed in the stream of Spiritual Light, and rises above the realm of matter and enters into the spiritual world to become united with the Son of God, as was achieved by Lord Jesus of Nazareth. It obviously refers to attaining Enlightenment.

[Cerebrum123]

Water Baptism is Not! salvation is a free Gift !nothing we do can earn it! We just accept His gospel as truth and Him from our heart [Spirit] as LORD and master ! It simple but few have it1 It a relationship Forever more! Has nothing to do with churches or religions or others !It one on One forever more !it a true LOVE story, between our Creator as Father thur Jesus Christ ! He accepts us as we are! We are then given a new spirit and his Spirit then dwells in our spirit ! Only our spirit has salvation1 our flesh mind and body Return too the dust of the earth! gone forever more ! He does not want us bound to anything , But Love and Faith ! all religions just want to use us to build there own kingdoms! He said ? My sheep hear my Voice and follow me ! We only follow HIM! He called us to live in Freedom! i love church ,but do not follow it or the pastor! My teacher is the Holy Ghost!

If we are to lose our mind, then why did Jesus command this?

Mark 12:30
Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’

You are neglecting a VERY important part of who a person is, and in doing so, you also reject what God has given you, and the knowledge He offers about salvation.

In the Hindu religion there is a similar reference to being baptized and that the "son of man" becomes again absorbed in the stream of Spiritual Light, and rises above the realm of matter and enters into the spiritual world to become united with the Son of God, as was achieved by Lord Jesus of Nazareth. It obviously refers to attaining Enlightenment.

goldie, Jesus WAS the Son of God, and NO ONE ELSE ever was. There is no special "enlightenment". It is all a pseudo-spiritual lie that you have swallowed hook, line, and sinker. Just like Gatsby, and others on this site. Son of Man was a TITLE that was in reference to Jesus being the Messiah foretold to the Jews, in fact, the word Christ, is just the Greek equivalent to the Hebrew Messiah, and has nothing to do with anything, or anyone other than the man who was fully God, and a part of the Trinity, Jesus.

[Livelystone]

Water Baptism is Not! salvation is a free Gift !nothing we do can earn it! We just accept His gospel as truth and Him from our heart [Spirit] as LORD and master ! It simple but few have it1 It a relationship Forever more! Has nothing to do with churches or religions or others !It one on One forever more !it a true LOVE story, between our Creator as Father thur Jesus Christ ! He accepts us as we are! We are then given a new spirit and his Spirit then dwells in our spirit ! Only our spirit has salvation1 our flesh mind and body Return too the dust of the earth! gone forever more ! He does not want us bound to anything , But Love and Faith ! all religions just want to use us to build there own kingdoms! He said ? My sheep hear my Voice and follow me ! We only follow HIM! He called us to live in Freedom! i love church ,but do not follow it or the pastor! My teacher is the Holy Ghost!

Hi Gary

It's always nice to see when somebody loves the Lord.

The doctrine of baptisms as spoken of by the apostle Paul in the first 2 verses of Hebrew 6 are necessary doctrines to understand before one can be moved forward by God on into perfection. Because the word “baptisms” is a plural word we know there is more than one baptism and because God works through threes we should be able to look for and find three different types of baptism for us.

Just so happens there are three different baptisms that we are to fulfill with the first being the baptism of John that was modeled after the sequence of events from repentance for sin to being washed in the water of the word that we see in prophecy in the laver in the courtyard that was between the altar and the entrance into the holy room. Only priests were allowed to enter the holy room and we become designated as priest with the baptism of his Holy Spirit in us that is the seed of Christ. Finally we need to be baptized into his death so we can be resurrected with him that is our hope of glory. Where the work needs to be done is through the baptism of the Holy Spirit that is to make us into an acceptable offering (chase virgins). At the end of the Old Testament Malachi prophesies of the problem of people wanting to be baptized in the death of Jesus but are not qualified when he speaks of robbing God by offering up lame and sick sacrifices.

I admire you devotion but I ask you to rethink your wording about saying His spirit is dropped into our spirit because the spirit of man is an unclean spirit and you cannot mix what is holy with what is not holy without violating the law of mingling seed. We have been given a new spirit so that we can allow the old spirit that is the spirit of man to die while we live on through the Holy Spirit of Christ whom we have been given an “earnest of” that means that we've only been given a partial amount of the Holy Spirit to start off with.

Blessings to you

Doug

[Livelystone]

Sorry for the delay in answering. Still searching for a job



Exo 30:17 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
Exo 30:18 Thou shalt also make a laver of brass, and his foot also of brass, to wash withal: and thou shalt put it between the tabernacle of the congregation and the altar, and thou shalt put water therein.
Exo 30:19 For Aaron and his sons shall wash their hands and their feet thereat:
Exo 30:20 When they go into the tabernacle of the congregation, they shall wash with water, that they die not; or when they come near to the altar to minister, to burn offering made by fire unto the LORD:
Exo 30:21 So they shall wash their hands and their feet, that they die not: and it shall be a statute for ever to them, even to him and to his seed throughout their generations.

Thanks

Because it has been so long since I asked the question I'm not sure why I did. I know at the time I was having difficulty finding where in the Scriptures it says that the laver was made from crushed mirrors. However, I am not positive that is the reason why I asked.

[Livelystone]

If we are to lose our mind, then why did Jesus command this?

Mark 12:30
Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’

You are neglecting a VERY important part of who a person is, and in doing so, you also reject what God has given you, and the knowledge He offers about salvation.

goldie, Jesus WAS the Son of God, and NO ONE ELSE ever was. There is no special "enlightenment". It is all a pseudo-spiritual lie that you have swallowed hook, line, and sinker. Just like Gatsby, and others on this site. Son of Man was a TITLE that was in reference to Jesus being the Messiah foretold to the Jews, in fact, the word Christ, is just the Greek equivalent to the Hebrew Messiah, and has nothing to do with anything, or anyone other than the man who was fully God, and a part of the Trinity, Jesus.

The Scriptures tell us that Adam was also a son of God, so as far as your proclamation of “no one else ever was,” the Scriptures prove you're wrong.

In addition to that it is quite apparent that Adam lost his “son ship” status with his Father,God, that is an underlying theme seen between two brothers throughout the Scriptures.

Being "as brothers" we have been given the powers to become sons of God; taking notice of what happend to Adam should certainly blow the false doctrine of “0SAS” completely out of the water, and cause us to pay better attention to the truth.

Blessings

Doug

[Cerebrum123]

The Scriptures tell us that Adam was also a son of God, so as far as your proclamation of “no one else ever was,” the Scriptures prove you're wrong.

In addition to that it is quite apparent that Adam lost his “son ship” status with his Father,God, that is an underlying theme seen between two brothers throughout the Scriptures.

Being "as brothers" we have been given the powers to become sons of God; taking notice of what happend to Adam should certainly blow the false doctrine of “0SAS” completely out of the water, and cause us to pay better attention to the truth.

Blessings

Doug

There is a difference between the title Son of God, and when someone is described as a son of God. The former ONLY applies to Jesus, while the other has been applied to Adam, angels, and in Psalms I believe, to even earthly kings. When someone uses Son of God, rather than son of God, they are referring to Jesus as the second person in the Trinity. Also, we are to be sons of God by adoption, not by nature. Jesus is the Son of God, and by His very nature. Also, AFAICT, the only way to truly lose salvation would be complete, and total apostacy, and I believe that that is quite the rare event.

[Livelystone]

There is a difference between the title Son of God, and when someone is described as a son of God. The former ONLY applies to Jesus, while the other has been applied to Adam, angels, and in Psalms I believe, to even earthly kings. When someone uses Son of God, rather than son of God, they are referring to Jesus as the second person in the Trinity. Also, we are to be sons of God by adoption, not by nature. Jesus is the Son of God, and by His very nature. Also, AFAICT, the only way to truly lose salvation would be complete, and total apostacy, and I believe that that is quite the rare event.

In the Scriptures titles have everything to do with the standing of the person.

Jesus and Adam were the only two humans ever to appear on earth without sin as a principality living within them. Unfortunately for Adam he did not keep that innocence and became the first of many brothers in the Bible to become a castaway.

Paul denotes the differences between the title of being a son as a singular entity versus sons as in many in the 1st chapter of Hebrews when he mockingly asked...

Hebrews 1:5
For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

No Angels have ever been called to be a son of God and Paul knowing of the erroneous demonic inspired doctrines that would come into the church and take many captive, understood why the passage of Lucifer would be given “fallen Angel status a.k.a. Satan” instead of the fall of mankind starting with Adam as a son of God that is what that passage is really all about.

To understand what the restoration is about one has to understand what was lost at the fall of man and why Jesus and Adam were the only two humans, (for a period of time in the case of Adam versus the entire innocent life of Jesus), who walked on earth and were without any sin within them.

Blessings

Doug

[Bill the Cat]

Moderated By: Bill the Cat

All off-topic posts have been removed. Please stay on topic, which is the question of baptism

***If you wish to take issue with this notice DO NOT do so in this thread.***
Contact the forum moderator or an administrator in Private Message or email instead. If you feel you must publically complain or whine, please take it to the Psychotherapy Room unless told otherwise.

[Gatsby]

There is a difference between the title Son of God, and when someone is described as a son of God. The former ONLY applies to Jesus, while the other has been applied to Adam, angels, and in Psalms I believe, to even earthly kings. When someone uses Son of God, rather than son of God, they are referring to Jesus as the second person in the Trinity. Also, we are to be sons of God by adoption, not by nature. Jesus is the Son of God, and by His very nature. Also, AFAICT, the only way to truly lose salvation would be complete, and total apostacy, and I believe that that is quite the rare event.

Good grief Cerebrum, well thats a new one on me for sure. All of a sudden our status as sons and daughters of God ie His children is not the case after all but instead God is going to adopt us. Where on earth does it say that in the Bible. We are to be adopted. Sorry but I have never heard such nonsense as this before. Really it is mind boggling the things you people on here will say to defend yourselves and your scriptures.

Regard
gatsby

[Gatsby]

• Edited by a Moderator •

Moderated By: CP

Please read and heed the rest of the information in this notice, and in Bill's notice. Do not reply, respond, or refer to this notice, or any moderation action. Thanks.

***If you wish to take issue with this notice DO NOT do so in this thread.***
Contact the forum moderator or an administrator in Private Message or email instead. If you feel you must publically complain or whine, please take it to the Psychotherapy Room unless told otherwise.

[Cerebrum123]

Good grief Cerebrum, well thats a new one on me for sure. All of a sudden our status as sons and daughters of God ie His children is not the case after all but instead God is going to adopt us. Where on earth does it say that in the Bible. We are to be adopted. Sorry but I have never heard such nonsense as this before. Really it is mind boggling the things you people on here will say to defend yourselves and your scriptures.

Regard
gatsby

Gatsby, by becoming saved we become joint heirs with Jesus, and are adopted as sons and daughters of God.

Romans 8:14-16
New International Version (NIV)
14 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. 15 The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship.[a] And by him we cry, “Abba,[b] Father.” 16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children.

Sorry BTC, but I felt that that one needed to be addressed. I will try to stay on topic after this post.