Originally posted by Christian3
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This is where we come to delve into the biblical text. Theology is not our foremost thought, but we realize it is something that will be dealt with in nearly every conversation. Feel free to use the original languages to make your point (meaning Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic). This is an exegetical discussion area, so please limit topics to purely biblical ones.
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This is not the section for debates between theists and atheists. While a theistic viewpoint is not required for discussion in this area, discussion does presuppose a respect for the integrity of the Biblical text (or the willingness to accept such a presupposition for discussion purposes) and a respect for the integrity of the faith of others and a lack of an agenda to undermine the faith of others.
Forum Rules: Here
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New Testament Manuscripts
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Last edited by Same Hakeem; 01-05-2020, 11:13 AM.
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Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Postand another took a spear and pierced his side, and there came out water and blood
οἱ δὲ λοιποὶ εἶπαν Ἄφες ἴδωμεν εἰ ἔρχεται Ἡλείας σώσων αὐτόν.
And the rest said, "Let him be. Let us see if Elijah comes to save him."
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Originally posted by Same Hakeem View PostThe more ancient the manuscripts the more doctrinal are the contradictions.
For example, in certain of these more ancient manuscripts (e.g. Siniticanus and Vaticanus), John 1:18 reads;
"No one has ever seen God; the only GodGod, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known." NIV
According to these more ancient manuscripts on John 1:18, Jesus is the ONLY God
One more thing. μονογενὴς does not mean "only" (as in "Only God"). It means "unique," or less accurately "only begotten" (as Trinitarians prefer). So what exactly is a / the "only begotten God"? JWs even insist that this phrasing supports their doctrine as over the Trinitarians so that they claim that there is only One God (the Father), and one begotten god, namely the Son, who was "begotten" or "created" / "generated" by the Father at some point in time.
Textual criticism is not as simple as just blurting out a hah, I got the relatively more ancient fragment , so my reading and interpretation is proved correct.Last edited by Unitarian101; 01-06-2020, 01:38 PM.
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Originally posted by Unitarian101 View PostAlthough we do not [yet] have manuscript fragments as early as those for the μονογενὴς θεὸς reading as we do for the ὁ μονογενὴς υἱός reading, the testimony of the earliest church Fathers and of it's virtual ubiquitous presence outside of the Alexandrian tradition virtually guarantees that the [ὁ] μονογενὴς υἱός reading is at least as ancient as the μονογενὴς θεὸς reading. Also the internal evidence is decisively against μονογενὴς θεὸς. I suggest you filter through Bart Ehrman's Orthodox Corruption of Scripture on this score.
One more thing. μονογενὴς does not mean "only" (as in "Only God"). It means "unique," or less accurately "only begotten" (as Trinitarians prefer). So what exactly is a / the "only begotten God"? JWs even insist that this phrasing supports their doctrine as over the Trinitarians so that they claim that there is only One God (the Father), and one begotten god, namely the Son, who was "begotten" or "created" / "generated" by the Father at some point in time.
Textual criticism is not as simple as just blurting out a hah, I got the relatively more ancient fragment , so my reading and interpretation is proved correct.
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