Evil Spirits Are Just Like Evil People?

[TyRockwell]

Hi, something i want to bounce about here to see what others will come up with:

Debating with someone at the moment and presenting the Christian view that there are evil spirits that are lead by Satan.

The response I have got is:

Evil spirits are just like people. There are evil and good. Also, they are not lead by a Satan any more than all the evil people of the world are lead by one evil human.

I know there are problems with the way this person is responding here but can't quite see where it breaks down at the moment. Can anyone else see it? Help appreciated.

Evil spirits are separate beings from the people they influence. The spirits enter people to manipulate them, though the people struggle against them if they do not have the power of the Holy Spirit to resist and reject them and keep them from entering them in the first place. An evil spirit will not enter a Christian usually, unless the light of the candle of the Lord has gone out in them. "The spirit of man is the candle of the Lord." Proverbs 20:27

So if the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness. Matthew 6:23

[TyRockwell]

No, it's not a Christian it's a pagan, so the person won't accept the authority of the Bible. It's a logical argument I need to refute them.

The authority of the Name of Jesus can set them free.

[Kane]

The authority of the Name of Jesus can set them free.

Meh. What's in a name?

[The Pixie]

It's so tough when logic is the only thing that unbelievers will listen to, because scripture is our final authority and you are right, they don't hold to that authority.

That sums up the gulf between Christians and agnostics/atheists; Christians start from scripture, agnostics/atheists start from evidence and logic.

[robertb]

Hi, something i want to bounce about here to see what others will come up with:

Debating with someone at the moment and presenting the Christian view that there are evil spirits that are lead by Satan.

Is this actually the Christian view, or is it a view espoused by some Christians?

Have you ever read the Book of 1 Samuel?

14 Now the Spirit of the LORD had departed from Saul, and an evil [a] spirit from the LORD tormented him.

or

10 The next day an evil [a] spirit from God came forcefully upon Saul. He was prophesying in his house, while David was playing the harp, as he usually did. Saul had a spear in his hand


Read 1 Samuel chapters 16 - 19.

The response I have got is:

Evil spirits are just like people. There are evil and good. Also, they are not lead by a Satan any more than all the evil people of the world are lead by one evil human.

I know there are problems with the way this person is responding here but can't quite see where it breaks down at the moment. Can anyone else see it? Help appreciated.

Your opponent is correct, in that and at least biblically, evil spirits are not necessarily lead by Satan. In fact, scripturally, they seem to be lead by God.

[TyRockwell]

Meh. What's in a name?

"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go in my name into all the earth..." Jesus Christ in Matthew 28:18

[mossrose]

That sums up the gulf between Christians and agnostics/atheists; Christians start from scripture, agnostics/atheists start from evidence and logic.

I surely get tired of that old saw from atheists and agnostics. It seems that at least one atheist thinks that believers have a little bit of reason and logic.

“I want atheism to be true and am made uneasy by
the fact that some of the most intelligent and well informed
people I know are religious believers,”
admits philosopher Thomas Nagel in his book
The Last Word. “It isn’t just that I don’t believe in
God and, naturally, hope that I’m right in my belief.
It’s that I hope there is no God! I don’t want there to
be a God: I don’t want the universe to be like that.”

http://www.prairie.edu/servant/Servant85.pdf

[TyRockwell]

Is this actually the Christian view, or is it a view espoused by some Christians?

Have you ever read the Book of 1 Samuel?

14 Now the Spirit of the LORD had departed from Saul, and an evil [a] spirit from the LORD tormented him.

or

10 The next day an evil [a] spirit from God came forcefully upon Saul. He was prophesying in his house, while David was playing the harp, as he usually did. Saul had a spear in his hand


Read 1 Samuel chapters 16 - 19.



Your opponent is correct, in that and at least biblically, evil spirits are not necessarily lead by Satan. In fact, scripturally, they seem to be lead by God.

The OT language did not have the permissive verb "to allow," so it gets translated "God sent" or God did _____ (fill in the blank), instead of God allowed....

[robertb]

The OT language did not have the permissive verb "to allow," so it gets translated "God sent" or God did _____ (fill in the blank), instead of God allowed....

If that makes you feel better about it...

Of course, whether God sends or God allows, the result is the same. You seem to imply that the employer of the assassin is innocent of the assassination.

[TyRockwell]

If that makes you feel better about it...

Of course, whether God sends or God allows, the result is the same. You seem to imply that the employer of the assassin is innocent of the assassination.

No, God is not the employer! God is not the employer of Satan, either.

God gave the responsibility of stopping Satan and evil spirits to Christians. We've come a long way, but some of the biggest enemies are still to fall.

[Kane]

"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go in my name into all the earth..." Jesus Christ in Matthew 28:18

Yeah, I understand that you think Jesus's name has all authority in heaven and earth. We can point to earth, and we can point to each other. We can't point to Jesus and we can't point to heaven. Does that mean he's so authoritative that we have no external frame of reference for him? That doesn't sound very authoritative: to possess all ability to command, and yet not be able to give a reference point to the people who are supposed to be obeying. Well, nothing except a highly dubious and wonderfully contradictory book.

[TyRockwell]

Yeah, I understand that you think Jesus's name has all authority in heaven and earth. We can point to earth, and we can point to each other. We can't point to Jesus and we can't point to heaven. Does that mean he's so authoritative that we have no external frame of reference for him? That doesn't sound very authoritative: to possess all ability to command, and yet not be able to give a reference point to the people who are supposed to be obeying. Well, nothing except a highly dubious and wonderfully contradictory book.

This thread was started by a Christian, presenting questions for other Christians. Go away, in the name of Jesus.

[Kane]

This thread was started by a Christian, presenting questions for other Christians. Go away, in the name of Jesus.

Holy excrementum! It worked. I'm gone...

So who in hell is this (theological pun expressly intended)?




P.S. You've really gotta teach my that trick, Ty.

[Kane]

Strange how Jesus depended on the lag-time between my real life and my next visit to the internet to tell me to go away.

So, I suppose if I hadn't visited this thread for the next couple of months, you'd think you had won a victory in Jesus's name, hey Ty? But since I've posted twice now and not gone away, should we conclude that Jesus failed to act on this? Or do you want to puff up your spiritual conclusions by stating instead that Jesus's answer to your invocation of his authority was "no, I won't have him go away"? And wouldn't that contradict Jesus's other encouragement that whatsoever you ask in his name, he will do?

Anyway, back to the thread at hand... What evidence is there for evil spirits being like evil people? And what kind of evil are we talking about here: ontological evil (as in rebellious spirits), or evil measured by action (as in people who do really bad things)?

[TyRockwell]

The thread at hand is for Christians. Leave.