Your god gave children cancer

[Pitchforkpat]

Who knows? When Mao Tse Tung was asked about the effect of Napoleon Bonaparte on world history, he said it was "too early to tell." The point is that you're asking the question, "Why?" and converting "We don't know" to "There is no answer." Try that on any scientist of your choosing and see how far you get. Why should we know the reasons that God does things? Also:

What’s fascinating is that you think the Holocaust might have been a positive thing on balance. It’s preposterous, and frankly disturbing, but you have to some how talk yourself into believing something so ludicrous because the position you’ve taken depends on it. Of the six million Jews who were slaughtered, do you think more than a handful converted to Christianity (if any) before they were killed? If not, then, according to many of your cohorts (and perhaps you too) they’re going to suffer day and night forever into the bargain. You’re really stretching credulity on this on RB.

Who said the tumors were malignant cancer? Not the Bible. "Tumor" just means "swelling."

Hey, it’s YOUR Bible and YOUR Bible calls it “tumors”. And also according to your Bible a great many people died from the tumors, so clearly they weren’t benign. That would leave malignant. Here’s a definition of tumor for you:

A tumor is an abnormal growth of body tissue. Tumors can be cancerous (malignant) or non-cancerous (benign).

Even if you were able to sucessfully argue that it’s not technically what we would call today "cancer", it’s pretty close and this doesn’t detract from the point that this would have been an extremely painful death and what did those little Philistine kiddie winkies do to deserve that?

[Siggy Ivarsson]

No the idea of biological warfare started earlier. When dead corpses where thrown over walls of besieged cities to give them the pestilence they died of. The first to die where always the children because they had built up less resistance. What king of world you think we live in.

[RBerman]

What’s fascinating is that you think the Holocaust might have been a positive thing on balance. It’s preposterous, and frankly disturbing, but you have to some how talk yourself into believing something so ludicrous because the position you’ve taken depends on it. Of the six million Jews who were slaughtered, do you think more than a handful converted to Christianity (if any) before they were killed? If not, then, according to many of your cohorts (and perhaps you too) they’re going to suffer day and night forever into the bargain. You’re really stretching credulity on this on RB.

I recognize that the claims of Christianity do more than "stretch credulity;" they are patently offensive to those who don't believe. I'm OK with that, though I hope that one day you'll believe, and then you'll see these things differently.

Hey, it’s YOUR Bible and YOUR Bible calls it “tumors”. And also according to your Bible a great many people died from the tumors, so clearly they weren’t benign. That would leave malignant. Here’s a definition of tumor for you: "A tumor is an abnormal growth of body tissue. Tumors can be cancerous (malignant) or non-cancerous (benign)."

You need to do some more reading. You can still die from a "benign" tumor. "Benign" doesn't mean it's not dangerous. It means it's not cancerous. Do you know what "cancerous" means?

Even if you were able to sucessfully argue that it’s not technically what we would call today "cancer", it’s pretty close and this doesn’t detract from the point that this would have been an extremely painful death and what did those little Philistine kiddie winkies do to deserve that?

They sinned, just like the rest of us. We all deserve death.

[Pitchforkpat]

I recognize that the claims of Christianity do more than "stretch credulity;" they are patently offensive to those who don't believe. I'm OK with that, though I hope that one day you'll believe, and then you'll see these things differently.

Thanks for the little sermon but it only demonstrates that you have absolutely no answer for the problem I stated. The position you’ve taken is preposterous. You have no way of trying to argue that the holocaust would have been a positive thing on balance. It’s a desperate position to take and you have failed miserably to substantiate your views.

You can still die from a "benign" tumor. "Benign" doesn't mean it's not dangerous

Doctor: “Good news, the tumor is benign…However, you’re going to die from it, and soon.”

From the National Cancer Institute:

A growth that is not cancer. It does not invade nearby tissue or spread to other parts of the body

The people died quickly from the tumors. You are willing to say anything, even making things up, in order to try to defend your deity. I am so happy that I’m not a Christian and don’t have to take bizarre positions like you just did.

Do you know what "cancerous" means?

Yes, it means it’s growing and invading other parts of the body.

They sinned, just like the rest of us. We all deserve death.

How uplifting and inspiring to look at an innocent little eight year old girl and think she’s so awful she deserves to die. This is actually what follows from this hideous view of human kind that you paint as a Christian with that kind of remark. Young children are not awful sinners who deserve death. It’s disturbing and depressing that there are people in the world like you who think so negatively about others. Thanks for making me happy I’m not a Christian. Apologists like you do a great job of confirming that I made the right decision.

[RBerman]

Thanks for the little sermon but it only demonstrates that you have absolutely no answer for the problem I stated. The position you’ve taken is preposterous. You have no way of trying to argue that the holocaust would have been a positive thing on balance. It’s a desperate position to take and you have failed miserably to substantiate your views.

You're simply continuing on your "argument from outrage," as evidenced by your choice of descriptors ("Preposterous, ludicrous, ridiculous"). Your point was understood several posts ago; you don't believe that God exists, and you're incapable of imagining that the world we have could result from a Divine Plan. Message received, loud and clear.

Doctor: “Good news, the tumor is benign…However, you’re going to die from it, and soon.”

From the National Cancer Institute:

The people died quickly from the tumors. You are willing to say anything, even making things up, in order to try to defend your deity. I am so happy that I’m not a Christian and don’t have to take bizarre positions like you just did.


Yes, it means it’s growing and invading other parts of the body.

Just as one possible example, Bubonic Plague causes swollen lymph nodes (tumors). It is not cancer, but it can kill you quickly-- much more quickly than any cancer, in fact. N.B., I'm not saying that the Philistines definitely had bubonic plague. I'm just trying to educate you that historically, any visible or palpable swelling on the body was called a "tumor." Thus "tumor, dolor, rubor, calor" (swelling, pain, redness, warmth) have been known to be signs of inflammation since Roman times.

How uplifting and inspiring to look at an innocent little eight year old girl and think she’s so awful she deserves to die. This is actually what follows from this hideous view of human kind that you paint as a Christian with that kind of remark. Young children are not awful sinners who deserve death. It’s disturbing and depressing that there are people in the world like you who think so negatively about others. Thanks for making me happy I’m not a Christian. Apologists like you do a great job of confirming that I made the right decision.

Another argument from outrage.

[headheart]

What king of world [do] you think we live in.

I am sure you meant 'kind' and 'do' - That is a good question.

So, Siggy ...

What kind of world do you think we live in?

Sincerely,
Eric J. Sawyer

[headheart]

Through Christianity, I have. But human knowledge is fallible and contingent; I don't know things in the perfect way that God does.

How about telling us a little more about how 'Christianity' has done this?

Sincerely,
Eric J. Sawyer

[RBerman]

How about telling us a little more about how 'Christianity' has done this?

He was asking about how I knew anything about the supernatural world. The answer is that God has revealed much about the supernatural world in the Bible. Also, I have directly experienced the work of God in my life, convicting me of sin, driving me to the cross of Christ for forgiveness, and experiencing peace thereafter and a growing desire to be conformed to the image of God.

[Kane]

He was asking about how I knew anything about the supernatural world. The answer is that God has revealed much about the supernatural world in the Bible.

Unless you assume that the Bible is God's word, then you're simply assuming that the Bible reveals anything about the supernatural world. The problem is that you have nothing to contrast the claims of the Bible with to confirm if what it says is true. So you simply have to assume it is and work things out from there.

Also, I have directly experienced the work of God in my life, convicting me of sin, driving me to the cross of Christ for forgiveness, and experiencing peace thereafter and a growing desire to be conformed to the image of God.

How can you be sure you didn't just have psychosomatic reactions to the ideas you are supposed to believe according to your doctrines?

[headheart]

<snip> I have directly experienced the work of God in my life, convicting me of sin, driving me to the cross of Christ for forgiveness, and experiencing peace thereafter and a growing desire to be conformed to the image of God.

Thanks RB.
A little stiff, but I think it is what one might call 'epistemologically sound'

Sincerely,
Eric J. Sawyer

[RBerman]

Unless you assume that the Bible is God's word, then you're simply assuming that the Bible reveals anything about the supernatural world. The problem is that you have nothing to contrast the claims of the Bible with to confirm if what it says is true. So you simply have to assume it is and work things out from there.

I agree.

How can you be sure you didn't just have psychosomatic reactions to the ideas you are supposed to believe according to your doctrines?

How can I be sure of anything? But I have faith that the Bible is true.

[Tassman]

He was asking about how I knew anything about the supernatural world. The answer is that God has revealed much about the supernatural world in the Bible. Also, I have directly experienced the work of God in my life, convicting me of sin, driving me to the cross of Christ for forgiveness, and experiencing peace thereafter and a growing desire to be conformed to the image of God.

Correction: Your world-view assumes, without verified evidence, that the bible provides reliable revelation about the supernatural world. But the existence of so many Christian denominations is evidence that it is open to many interpretations which can’t all be true. In fact two thirds of the world thinks none of it is true.

And, while you are no doubt personally convinced you have personally experienced god in your life it is a purely subjective experience which you have interpreted according to your own cultural expectations.

I very much doubt that a Hindu, in a remote corner of India, uncontaminated by Christian missionaries, would have a mystical experience of god in his life which convicted him of sin, driving him to the cross of Christ for forgiveness, and experiencing peace thereafter and a growing desire to be conformed to the image of God - as you claim to have had.

Hinduism, and most of the eastern religions, is concerned with ‘god-consciousness’ and becoming at one with the “whole”, NOT with personal salvation from a god whose revelation has been recorded in a book. His mystical experience will be quite different from yours – which indicates that they are internal, culturally biased, natural experiences rather than an external visitation from a deity.

[Siggy Ivarsson]

Not only cancer but many other afflictions. I had a colleague at college who was depressed because her husband was having an affair. I found out latter that our frolicking husband had been gang raped by twelve boys when he was twelve years old in Sweden. I told her the next day that she had been a man eater in a former life and broken the hearts of many men. Then I told her that her husband had been a catholic priest in a former life who had abused twelve boys. They felt at peace ,

[RBerman]

Correction: Your world-view assumes, without verified evidence, that the bible provides reliable revelation about the supernatural world. But the existence of so many Christian denominations is evidence that it is open to many interpretations which can’t all be true. In fact two thirds of the world thinks none of it is true.

And, while you are no doubt personally convinced you have personally experienced god in your life it is a purely subjective experience which you have interpreted according to your own cultural expectations.

I very much doubt that a Hindu, in a remote corner of India, uncontaminated by Christian missionaries, would have a mystical experience of god in his life which convicted him of sin, driving him to the cross of Christ for forgiveness, and experiencing peace thereafter and a growing desire to be conformed to the image of God - as you claim to have had.

Hinduism, and most of the eastern religions, is concerned with ‘god-consciousness’ and becoming at one with the “whole”, NOT with personal salvation from a god whose revelation has been recorded in a book. His mystical experience will be quite different from yours – which indicates that they are internal, culturally biased, natural experiences rather than an external visitation from a deity.

There are certainly many world-views in the world. How did you manage the leap from "Not everyone can be right" to "No one is right" though? The Hindu rejects atheism as much as he rejects Christianity. Probably moreso.

[headheart]

Siggy,

I dub thee...


Attachment 88058


Sincerely,
Eric J. Sawyer