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Thread: Innerancy.

  1. #341
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    Did you even read that? Be honest.
    Same Hakeem is not interested in a meaningful conversation.

  2. Amen Cerebrum123 amen'd this post.
  3. #342
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    Did you even read that? Be honest.
    Sure I do. I have been reading the Bible(s) since I was 17 years old. I am now 37.

  4. Amen Rushing Jaws amen'd this post.
  5. #343
    tWebber Rushing Jaws's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Same Hakeem View Post
    So the Bible is not one; there is the 66 books bible of the protestant, the 73 books bible of the Catholic, and 79 books bible of the Greek orthodox.

    Each Christian of Protestant, Catholic, and Greek Orthodox claims that their bible is inspired and cannot be from God because God is not the author of confusion according to 1 Corinthians 14:33
    A fair argument, but it fails to recognise the massive overlap between the different canons of Scripture. In a treatment of the topic of canonicity, one must give all due attention both to the disagreements (which are real, and need to be accounted for) - and also to the agreement (which also needs to be accounted for).

    All 3 sets of Christians agree as to which books, and their constituent chapters, constitute the New Testament writings. All 3 have a canon of the same 27 books, with the same 260 chapters. The differences are not in those 2 matters, but in which verses - & readings of them - are “inspired and canonical”. That is a matter, not of Church affiliation, but of textual scholarship - and that raises the same questions for all 3 Churches.

    The differences of canon do not affect 39 of the OT books. There are 2 main differences in OT canons between the 3 groups:

    Some books, such as Ecclesiasticus, are canonical for Catholics and Orthodox, but not for Protestants.
    Some books common to all 3 have a significantly different text - Jeremiah and 1 Samuel (AKA 1 Kingdoms) in the LXX are examples.
    A further type of variation: the Protestant Esther lacks the “Additions to Esther” that are received as canonical by Orthodox and Catholics.

    Some books and parts of books are peculiar to the textual tradition of the LXX:

    Psalm 151
    The Odes of Solomon
    The Psalms of Solomon
    3 Maccabees
    4 Maccabees

    4 other books have at times appeared in MSS. and editions of the Vulgate:

    The Prayer of Manasseh
    3 Esdras
    4 Esdras
    The Letter of Paul to the Laodiceans.

    In practice, some books are more theologically central than others. To find the Gospel, people are going to go either to the 4 Gospels, or, to the Letters, such as those of St Paul. The former reflects catholic practice - the latter, Protestant practice. What neither group doubts is that all those writings, regardless of how one uses them, are parts of the NT canon. What nobody is going to do, is go to Proverbs, Micah or Nahum to find what the Gospel is. They are not theologically central to the Gospel, unlike the NT writings just mentioned. They are parts of God’s Revelation, but they do not preach Christ or His Gospel. For the same reason, no-one is going to read Ecclesiasticus or 3 Maccabees for the Gospel - it is not in them either, nor could it be, since they are pre-Christian. For the purposes of Christian theology, not all books are equally central. And in practice, major Christian theologians like Origen, St Augustine, Calvin, Newman or Barth may be drawn upon far more than some books in the Biblical canon - an author such as St Augustine has shed light on what it is to be a Christian, in a way and to a degree that Nahum, Joshua, and Obadiah have not. Obadiah does not cast any light on justification by faith - Calvin does. So a theologian with an interest in that doctrine, will not expect Obadiah to say much about it - but Calvin has a lot to say about it.

    So the difference in lists of canonical books, though important in principle, is of relatively slight importance in practice.

    Some books are more central to the OT than others. This may be - in part - why different Jewish groups, at different times, valued different books. The Pentateuch is the most sacred part of the Jewish OT, and the Samaritans recognise no other books as Scripture. Daniel enjoys nothing like the same degree of esteem, even though it is part of the Jewish Scriptures.

    In addition, it happens that books judged by a Church not to be canonical Scripture are nonetheless used in that Church’s liturgy. The Church of England appoints part of Ecclesiasticus 44 - part of a book it lists as apocryphal - to be read on Remembrance Day; and the “Tridentine” Missal uses a quotation from 4 Esdras in the Mass for the dead. A book judged to be no part of Scripture, can still be “useful for reading” by Christians, even when it is not used to establish points of doctrine.
    Last edited by Rushing Jaws; 11-27-2019 at 05:45 PM.

  6. #344
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Same Hakeem View Post
    Sparko, does your bible have 66 books of the protestant or 73 of the catholic or more?
    Yes, it does.

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