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  • Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
    You could start by realizing that Job 42:5 is written in poetic language, and that Job saying that his "eyes saw God" is a poetic way of saying that he now has personal, intimate knowledge of God, instead of just second hand knowledge about God from books or what he has heard from other people.

    There, "contradiction" resolved. Didn't even need more than a sentence.

    ETA: Oh, and lookie here. Sparko managed to do it in one word.

    Not true because Matthew 5:8 says "Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God" whereas 1 Timothy 6:16 says "no can see God".

    Comment


    • Two possible explanations.
      "God" sometimes is used interchangeably with "the Father." That is, sometimes a person might say "God" when he means "Father."
      Alternative explanation: God = Trinity, and no-one has seen the Trinity at any time.
      Either way, no contradiction exists.
      Too many Old Testament records show that people have seen God for a claim that "no-one can see God" to be viable, and those records cannot have been unknown to John.
      1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
      .
      ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
      Scripture before Tradition:
      but that won't prevent others from
      taking it upon themselves to deprive you
      of the right to call yourself Christian.

      ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
        1 John 4:7 says "God is love" and "God is not unjust" in Hebrews 6:10, however, Deut 20:16-17 says "However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you " as well as " Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”

        We all agree that God is love and just. But we cannot believe that killings of infants and all that breathes are attributed to God's order as per the above verses.
        Personal incredulity is not a contradiction.

        You need to show that God determining when (and how) someone dies is in fact unjust. You need to demonstrate, for example, that Amalekite children were actually killed, AND that they were completely innocent, AND that their death deprived them of all opportunity to know God and receive His forgiveness for their sins.

        IOW, that they went to hell because they were killed as a child, when they would have certainly gone to heaven otherwise. It's only in this circumstance that one might be able to argue that God was unjust. Since there is no way of demonstrating this, you're merely asserting a contradiction where none necessarily exists.
        ...>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
          Your statement above is due to the fact that the original manuscripts are lost.

          My response to your it-is-a-copyist-error argument is how can you be sure that these original manuscripts were without errors when no one has ever seen them and in light of the contradictions and conflicts?
          Are you that stupid? Asked and answered. Textual critics do not see this as an issue, moron.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
            Your statement above is due to the fact that the original manuscripts are lost.

            My response to your it-is-a-copyist-error argument is how can you be sure that these original manuscripts were without errors when no one has ever seen them and in light of the contradictions and conflicts?
            Are you that stupid? Asked and answered. Textual critics do not see this as an issue, moron.

            Comment


            • Based on what I've seen here and elsewhere on the Internet, I can't help but wonder if this is really the best Muslim apologetics has to offer.

              (I mean, I honestly think Mormonism is patent nonsense, but it has a share of people who can try to defend it without being complete idiots.)
              "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
                1 John 4:7 says "God is love" and "God is not unjust" in Hebrews 6:10, however, Deut 20:16-17 says "However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you " as well as " Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”

                We all agree that God is love and just. But we cannot believe that killings of infants and all that breathes are attributed to God's order as per the above verses.
                Why not, doesn't Allah tell you to kill all infidels?

                “Kill them [unbelievers] wherever you find them… And fight them until there is no more unbelief and worship is for Allah alone” (Quran 2:191-193).

                “Strike off their heads and strike from them every fingertip” (Quran 8:12).
                Last edited by Sparko; 05-20-2019, 08:15 AM.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                  Based on what I've seen here and elsewhere on the Internet, I can't help but wonder if this is really the best Muslim apologetics has to offer.
                  Sadly yes. Most Muslim "apologetics" I have seen is borrowed from atheism. An authorotarian faith wouldn't see a lot of reason to develop good arguments.

                  The fact that Same Old Same Old uses the old "the God of the Bible orders the killing of children" canard while ignoring the same kind of passages in the Quran is proof enough that they just borrow their material without thinking of the implications for themselves.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by MaxVel View Post
                    Personal incredulity is not a contradiction.

                    You need to show that God determining when (and how) someone dies is in fact unjust. You need to demonstrate, for example, that Amalekite children were actually killed, AND that they were completely innocent, AND that their death deprived them of all opportunity to know God and receive His forgiveness for their sins.

                    IOW, that they went to hell because they were killed as a child, when they would have certainly gone to heaven otherwise. It's only in this circumstance that one might be able to argue that God was unjust. Since there is no way of demonstrating this, you're merely asserting a contradiction where none necessarily exists.

                    Hi Maxvel,

                    I am afraid you missed my point. Here is my point: how a loving (1 John 4:7) and a just God (Hebrews 6:10) orders the killings infants as in 1 Samuel 15:3. It is a theological conflict. We accept that God is loving and just. But it cannot be acceptable that God orders to kill infants.

                    Comment


                    • I wasn't aware that God owed anyone life....

                      Comment


                      • God created life so he has the power to take it if he wishes. I find it funny your complaining and refuse to acknowledge your own Quran records these events of the flood and the wars of the Old Testament. Allah it seems can take life of his creation but according to you the Bible cannot.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
                          It is a theological conflict. We accept that God is loving and just. But it cannot be acceptable that God orders to kill infants.
                          God sent His son to die for us so that we may have eternal life.
                          Allah demands his followers send their own sons to die for him.

                          Talk about a theological conflict! And - Infants: The New Terrorist Weapon?

                          Rocks and glass houses, Hakeem.
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                            God sent His son to die for us so that we may have eternal life.
                            Allah demands his followers send their own sons to die for him.

                            Talk about a theological conflict! And - Infants: The New Terrorist Weapon?

                            Rocks and glass houses, Hakeem.


                            In the case of Muslims that hypocritically accuse the God of the Old Testament of being cruel and vindictive, while ignoring all the problematic passages in the Quran, the phrase needs to be modified a bit. Don't say "You shouldn't throw rocks in glasshouses", but rather "You shouldn't launch rockets in glasshouses."

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post


                              In the case of Muslims that hypocritically accuse the God of the Old Testament of being cruel and vindictive, while ignoring all the problematic passages in the Quran, the phrase needs to be modified a bit. Don't say "You shouldn't throw rocks in glasshouses", but rather "You shouldn't launch rockets in glasshouses."

                              Is it OK to confess that this actually made me laugh almost out loud, and it's Midnite-thirty here, and I scared Jake?
                              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
                                Hi Maxvel,

                                I am afraid you missed my point. Here is my point: how a loving (1 John 4:7) and a just God (Hebrews 6:10) orders the killings infants as in 1 Samuel 15:3. It is a theological conflict. We accept that God is loving and just. But it cannot be acceptable that God orders to kill infants.

                                Why are you not concerned that Allah kills infants? Does that make Allah evil?

                                Comment

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