Innerancy.

[Cow Poke]

Same has a habit of ignoring responses to his objections.

It's one reason I'm hardly even bothering with him.

Who?

[Same Hakeem]

You've merely restated your objection, but not done any work to show that it is an actual objection.



God ordered infants killed, but we know God is both loving and just, therefore, we can be assured that those infants did not suffer anything unnecessarily, and that they have been completely re-compensated by God Himself for any loss they might have had.

Problem solved. Just as well God is loving and just otherwise Him ordering infants killed would be kind of bad.

Hi MaxVel,

Lets read out God order in 1 Samuel 15:3 as follows;

"Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys"

Once read, below are my questions;

1. Is God's order to kill infants an act of Holy God?

2. Is God's order to kill sheep an act of Just God?

[Apologiaphoenix]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz................

[Sparko]

Hi MaxVel,

Lets read out God order in 1 Samuel 15:3 as follows;

"Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys"

Once read, below are my questions;

1. Is God's order to kill infants an act of Holy God?

2. Is God's order to kill sheep an act of Just God?

Yes.

[Same Hakeem]

You've merely restated your objection, but not done any work to show that it is an actual objection.



God ordered infants killed, but we know God is both loving and just, therefore, we can be assured that those infants did not suffer anything unnecessarily, and that they have been completely re-compensated by God Himself for any loss they might have had.

Problem solved. Just as well God is loving and just otherwise Him ordering infants killed would be kind of bad.

Hi MaxVel,

Lets read out God order in 1 Samuel 15:3 as follows;

"Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys"

Once read, below are my questions;

1. Is God's order to kill infants an act of Holy God?

2. Is God's order to kill sheep an act of Just God?

[Sparko]

Hakeem, do you believe that Allah destroyed all life on earth except for Noah and his family in the flood? Including women and children and sheep?

[tabibito]

Hi MaxVel,

Lets read out God order in 1 Samuel 15:3 as follows;

"Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys"

Once read, below are my questions;

1. Is God's order to kill infants an act of Holy God?

2. Is God's order to kill sheep an act of Just God?

Yes.


Now ask the important questions related to this matter.

[Same Hakeem]

Yes.


Now ask the important questions related to this matter.

God's order to kill infants in 1 Sam 15:3 or God killing all firstborn in Egypt in Ex 12:29 conflict with God's command that "each one shall die for his own sin" in 2 Kings 14:6 and "the one that sins shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father nor the father shall bear the iniquity of the father. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him". Such orders of killing innocents and God killing innocents cannot be believed to be from God.

[Same Hakeem]

One of the unfulfilled prophecy is in 1 Thess. 4. In 1 Thess. 4:16-17 Paul stated, "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: And the dead Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air: And so shall we ever be with the Lord." Hence, Paul expected to be taken bodily to heaven with others then living, but did not take place. Such expectation is proven with Paul's use of the word "we".

[tabibito]

One of the unfulfilled prophecy is in 1 Thess. 4. In 1 Thess. 4:16-17 Paul stated, "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: And the dead Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air: And so shall we ever be with the Lord." Hence, Paul expected to be taken bodily to heaven with others then living, but did not take place. Such expectation is proven with Paul's use of the word "we".

Yes - Paul and at least some of the disciples expected Christ to return in their own lifetimes.

Your problem here is a failure to understand the force of "we" when it is coupled with "the living, the surviving until~." That sentence shows that members of the group - of which the speaker is a member - who are living at the time of the (second) advent will be taken up. The "we" includes anyone who might in future join with that group, and includes any members of that group who survive until the (second) advent. It speaks of a certainty with regard to what will happen for the members still living at that time, but makes no assumptions about whether any given individual - including the speaker - will survive til that date.

[Sparko]

I notice Hakeem doesn't answer any questions we have. I wonder why?

I will try again.


Hakeem, do you believe that Allah destroyed all life on earth except for Noah and his family in the flood? Including women and children and sheep?

[Same Hakeem]

Yes - Paul and at least some of the disciples expected Christ to return in their own lifetimes.

Your problem here is a failure to understand the force of "we" when it is coupled with "the living, the surviving until~." That sentence shows that members of the group - of which the speaker is a member - who are living at the time of the (second) advent will be taken up. The "we" includes anyone who might in future join with that group, and includes any members of that group who survive until the (second) advent. It speaks of a certainty with regard to what will happen for the members still living at that time, but makes no assumptions about whether any given individual - including the speaker - will survive til that date.

Please let me clarify;

1 Thess 4:17 says "After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever."

Paul in 1 Thess 4:17 uses "WE" which are alive. And that WE must include the speaker (i.e. Paul). Paul did not say "those" who are alive. He used WE, certainly showing he expected himself to be among those who would be alive at the second coming.

[tabibito]

Please let me clarify;

1 Thess 4:17 says "After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever."

Paul in 1 Thess 4:17 uses "WE" which are alive. And that WE must include the speaker (i.e. Paul). Paul did not say "those" who are alive. He used WE, certainly showing he expected himself to be among those who would be alive at the second coming.

No - it doesn't. Koine Greek is not English. The rules of grammar and syntax are not always the same.

[Cow Poke]

No - it doesn't. Koine Greek is not English. The rules of grammar and syntax are not always the same.

Hakeem doesn't seem to comprehend the translation process - like his insistence that the English word "bird" is proof that Moses thought bats were birds.

[JonathanL]

One of the unfulfilled prophecy is in 1 Thess. 4. In 1 Thess. 4:16-17 Paul stated, "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: And the dead Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air: And so shall we ever be with the Lord." Hence, Paul expected to be taken bodily to heaven with others then living, but did not take place. Such expectation is proven with Paul's use of the word "we".

The only thing the use of "we" in 1 Thess 4:16-17 proves is that Paul counted himself among the living when he wrote that passage. It tells us nothing about his expectations about whether he would be alive when Christ returns, other than that he possibly believed that he might be alive when it happened. There is nothing in the text itself that would preclude that Christ would return after Paul had died.