Self-Directed Evolution?

[Blue Canary]

I respect the learning on this forum and I would very much appreciate if any of you can help me with a question I've been tossing around.

I'd like to know if man's intelligence and freedom could direct his own evolution as a species. I know ultimately his intelligence has given him the technology to destroy his own species, but that is not what I am asking about. I'd like to know if early man had any choice, given his intelligence and ability to reject his instincts, to in any way direct his own evolution.

I'd very much like to stay on topic. This is not a thread to discuss the fact of evolution or any evolution/creation debate. As I am limited on time, I will defer any Jorge contributions to others who enjoy such a sport.

Thanks.

[shunyadragon]

I respect the learning on this forum and I would very much appreciate if any of you can help me with a question I've been tossing around.

I'd like to know if man's intelligence and freedom could direct his own evolution as a species. I know ultimately his intelligence has given him the technology to destroy his own species, but that is not what I am asking about. I'd like to know if early man had any choice, given his intelligence and ability to reject his instincts, to in any way direct his own evolution.

I'd very much like to stay on topic. This is not a thread to discuss the fact of evolution or any evolution/creation debate. As I am limited on time, I will defer any Jorge contributions to others who enjoy such a sport.

Thanks.

This is an interesting concept, and one often played upon in SciFi, and too yes and no. Humanity may change in an artificial way molded by the technological advancement of humanity, but I would not consider this evolution. Evolution of a species is more response to changes and adaptations by outside forces, such as the interaction with a changing environment or other species around them.

A human directed process would essentially separate humanity from the dependent relationship to the environment and other life. It may make humanity vulnerable for a collapse and possibly extinction when things radically change in nature.

[franktalk]

The classic definition of evolution and the mechanism limits what is possible. We do know that gene expression is influenced by environment or emotional state. That can and does affect offspring and their survival. This in turn causes a shift in gene drift across a species due to the interaction with expressed genes and environment. Now the question is man is charge of his thoughts enough to know that they will lead to a change in the future. I would say no.

[Tiggy]

I respect the learning on this forum and I would very much appreciate if any of you can help me with a question I've been tossing around.

I'd like to know if man's intelligence and freedom could direct his own evolution as a species. I know ultimately his intelligence has given him the technology to destroy his own species, but that is not what I am asking about. I'd like to know if early man had any choice, given his intelligence and ability to reject his instincts, to in any way direct his own evolution.

I'd very much like to stay on topic. This is not a thread to discuss the fact of evolution or any evolution/creation debate. As I am limited on time, I will defer any Jorge contributions to others who enjoy such a sport.

Thanks.

There are two major factors that affect evolution: changes to the genotype through random genetic variability, and the interaction of the resultant phenotype with the environment. Humans have already been somewhat responsible for their evolutionary path in the last 10K years due to their manipulation of the environment. A good example is the evolution of lactose tolerance. Many children lose the ability to digest lactose in milk as they grow into adulthood. However, in some societies that developed dairy herding the ability to tolerate lactose evolved. This was a beneficial mutation that was selected for and propagated through in those cultures, where there was a ready supply of milk/cheese products available for adults.

Lactose Intolerance Linked To Ancestral Environment

Got milk? Many people couldn't care less because they can't digest it. A new Cornell University study finds that it is primarily people whose ancestors came from places where dairy herds could be raised safely and economically, such as in Europe, who have developed the ability to digest milk.

On the other hand, most adults whose ancestors lived in very hot or very cold climates that couldn't support dairy herding or in places where deadly diseases of cattle were present before 1900, such as in Africa and many parts of Asia, do not have the ability to digest milk after infancy.

ScienceDaily whole article

There are other notable changes. The average human today is probably physically less robust than the average 10K years ago, but we live longer and reproduce more by using our technology to compensate.

The big unknown in the equation is changes to the human genome. Only in the last few decades have humans learned how to consciously manipulate genetic structures. That's a function that has been basically random for the last 3+ billion years. What we will do with the new genetic altering knowledge - use it wisely or abuse it - remains to be seen.

- T

[Blue Canary]

We do know that gene expression is influenced by environment or emotional state. That can and does affect offspring and their survival. This in turn causes a shift in gene drift across a species due to the interaction with expressed genes and environment. Now the question is man is charge of his thoughts enough to know that they will lead to a change in the future. I would say no.

Wow, so emotional state can affect gene expression. That is amazing. Does anyone else have anything to add about that? Amazing. I think that even if man does not know the advantage or disadvantage that his choice in emotional expression makes, this still shows that he can influence his own evolution by his choice. I will think more about this, I'm sure I'll have more questions.

Humans have already been somewhat responsible for their evolutionary path in the last 10K years due to their manipulation of the environment. A good example is the evolution of lactose tolerance. Many children lose the ability to digest lactose in milk as they grow into adulthood. However, in some societies that developed dairy herding the ability to tolerate lactose evolved. This was a beneficial mutation that was selected for and propagated through in those cultures, where there was a ready supply of milk/cheese products available for adults.

Again, amazing.

My mind is all aflame now. Thanks for thinking on this with me.

[franktalk]

Blue Canary,

Some links for you:

http://www.totalbirthing.com/Blog/mu...geneexpression

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16361876

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/science-news...l?WT.mc_id=rss

There is a bunch of stuff written on this subject. I think we are only just beginning to understand how much we are coupled to our surroundings.

[Jorge]

I respect the learning on this forum and I would very much appreciate if any of you can help me with a question I've been tossing around.

I'd like to know if man's intelligence and freedom could direct his own evolution as a species. I know ultimately his intelligence has given him the technology to destroy his own species, but that is not what I am asking about. I'd like to know if early man had any choice, given his intelligence and ability to reject his instincts, to in any way direct his own evolution.

I'd very much like to stay on topic. This is not a thread to discuss the fact of evolution or any evolution/creation debate. As I am limited on time, I will defer any Jorge contributions to others who enjoy such a sport.

Thanks.

********************************************************

I guess my reputation precedes me ... fine, let's stay on topic :

Before any rational answer may be given, you must first define exactly
what you mean by 'evolution'. To wit : you say "... given his intelligence
and ability to reject his own instincts."

So, you seem to be implying that when we reject our instincts then we
are, at least in a sense, "controlling our own evolution" (whatever that means).

'Evolution' defined merely as 'change' leaves the door wide open to
anything so that doesn't work. 'Evolution' defined as when we 'engineer'
cows that produce more milk or more beef (i.e., selective breeding)
then, yes, absolutely, we can do that and have done that. That's
precisely what Hitler had in mind with his 'Master Race'.

So, what exactly do you have in mind?

Jorge

[magellan004]

I respect the learning on this forum and I would very much appreciate if any of you can help me with a question I've been tossing around.

I'd like to know if man's intelligence and freedom could direct his own evolution as a species. I know ultimately his intelligence has given him the technology to destroy his own species, but that is not what I am asking about. I'd like to know if early man had any choice, given his intelligence and ability to reject his instincts, to in any way direct his own evolution.

I'd very much like to stay on topic. This is not a thread to discuss the fact of evolution or any evolution/creation debate. As I am limited on time, I will defer any Jorge contributions to others who enjoy such a sport.

Thanks.

From what I understand about Species, the minute man become different he is no longer the same species, so a species is set in time and cannot be directed. All a species can do is die out (according to evolution).

Magellan

[Tiggy]

From what I understand about Species, the minute man become different he is no longer the same species, so a species is set in time and cannot be directed. All a species can do is die out (according to evolution).

Magellan

There's the root cause of all your problems Clownshoes, right there.

- T

[shunyadragon]

From what I understand about Species, the minute man become different he is no longer the same species, so a species is set in time and cannot be directed. All a species can do is die out (according to evolution).

Magellan

No.

[lee_merrill]

We do know that gene expression is influenced by environment or emotional state. That can and does affect offspring and their survival.

But such factors do not notably affect the genome, so gene expression is not influencing gene transmission.

I'd like to know if man's intelligence and freedom could direct his own evolution as a species.

Centaurs! Personally, I'd like to fly, so a smaller frame, hollow bones, and some wings...

Anything seems possible, and given enough time, someone will do it. An arms race involving arms and legs, and of course you've seen the new men with the hypertrophied brains.

So yes, it's possible for such changes to be made intentionally, and I'm not going to say it won't happen.

Blessings,
Lee