Western Empire -- the “willful king”? (for futurists ONLY)

[MegaHertz]

What has already happened? (and the corresponding verses if you don't mind if there is more than what was in your last few posts)
It is mostly taking them at face value but there is a lot to take in so that makes it difficult to follow along

How did you reject it being 'wars and rumors of wars'? Have there been signs in the skyies that are applicable?

[seanD]

Sweet. Just keeps getting better and better...

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/...20120874.shtml

[seanD]

Interesting update...

Israel is moving forward with plans to hold the largest-ever missile defense exercise in its history this spring amid Iranian efforts to obtain nuclear weapons.

Last week, Lt.-Gen. Frank Gorenc, commander of the US’s Third Air Force based in Germany, visited Israel to finalize plans for the upcoming drill, expected to see the deployment of several thousand American soldiers in Israel.

The drill, which is unprecedented in its size, will include the establishment of US command posts in Israel and IDF command posts at EUCOM headquarters in Germany – with the ultimate goal of establishing joint task forces in the event of a large-scale conflict in the Middle East.

The US will also bring its THAAD (Terminal High Altitude Area Defense) and shipbased Aegis ballistic missile defense systems to Israel to simulate the interception of missile salvos against Israel.

The American systems will work in conjunction with Israel’s missile defense systems – the Arrow, Patriot and Iron Dome.

http://www.jpost.com/Defense/Article.aspx?id=250249

Compare to Daniel 11:41.

[seanD]

Update:

More US military progression into "Ethiopia" (Kush/Africa). Something that is getting extremely little MSM attention.

http://sfbayview.com/2012/u-s-deploy...can-countries/

[Johnny Poochie]

First of all please get it out of your head that “antichrist” is one monolithic figure. There are many antichrists and many different characters in Rev and other places that are antichrists, and seem to serve different roles. The Beast and the false prophet for example are obviously different characters, though they work in conjunction. Personally, I don’t believe “the willful king” is related to the Beast or the false prophet, but that’s just my interpretation, and that interpretation could certainly be wrong.

It's kind of like, there were many messiahs, Cyrus being one of them, but THE Messiah for Christians is Jesus. Likewise many antichrists, but THE Antichrist often refers to the Beast and specifically, the False Prophet.

As stated in other threads, my view the Beast of 7 Heads are Gentile Kingdoms ruling after Babylon was felled by Persia, starting with Alexander's of Brass followed by Ptolemaic and Seleucid, and then Roman Iron allied with Clay Hasmoneans then Herodians, the 5 Kingdoms fallen by the time of John:

Daniel 4:14-16 He cried aloud, and said thus, Hew down the tree, and cut off his branches, shake off his leaves, and scatter his fruit: let the beasts get away from under it, and the fowls from his branches: Nevertheless leave the stump of his roots in the earth, even with a band of iron and brass, in the tender grass of the field; and let it be wet with the dew of heaven, and let his portion be with the beasts in the grass of the earth: Let his heart be changed from man's, and let a beast's heart be given unto him; and let seven times pass over him.

Daniel 2:39 And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth.

Daniel 7:19 Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful, whose teeth were of iron, and his nails of brass; which devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet;

Daniel 2:33 His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay.

Then the False Prophet that looks like a Jewish Lamb but speaks like a Gentile Dragon, the 2 Horn Kingdoms of which being Jews and Gentiles against Jesus, Iron and Clay.

Luke 23:12 And the same day Pilate and Herod were made friends together: for before they were at enmity between themselves.

The nemesis of course being Jews and Gentiles for Jesus, the Olive Trees.

Revelation 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

Romans 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

The wounded Head is the destruction of that alliance, followed by Roman rule, then by Roman Church Crusaders for a short space.

Revelation 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

Then you get the revived 5th Head:

Revelation 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

Revelation 17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

Which is a revival of THE Antichrist, the Roman-Jewish alliance that sent Jesus to death, the False Prophet.

So anyway as to your question, Daniel 11:4 goes on apparently from Alexander's Kingdom to describe struggles between kings of North and South, which would first historically be Seleucid and Ptolemaic Kingdoms respectively, then shifting to Rome as the Northern King, and a dual fulfillment seen as the wounded and revived Heads. Which would be a great Gentile power like Rome allied with a Jewish power, ruling over Jerusalem. Some say the USA or the UN as the Gentile power, I lean more to the general idea of secularism and anti-Christian influences in Jerusalem, not really a specific country.

[seanD]

JP, are you a futurist?

[Johnny Poochie]

I'm for dual fulfillment 1st century and future, as with wounded and revived Head.

[seanD]

I'm for dual fulfillment 1st century and future, as with wounded and revived Head.

Okay, cool. I asked because it just seems that your views are contradictory in different threads, and I'm not really interested in discussions about this with anyone other than futurists, or at least those who have the urge to post here. In fact, I'm mainly using this thread as a type of journal to chronicle the OP and geopolitical events in realtime, and probably won't much discuss it with futurists of opposing views -- though they're certainly free to post here -- but I definitely don't want this obfuscated with a discussion about anything other than futurism.

[Johnny Poochie]

By futurist I assume you mean not entirely fulfilled by end of the 1st century. Not sure what seems contradictory but my comments were focused on looking at a few points in history to determine identities of these players, starting with Alexander's Kingdom with North and South rising from it, obviously Seleucid and Ptolemaic, progressing through the various kingdoms. In other words a key to identifying any of these figures is considering who rules over Jerusalem at any given time, within the framework of brass and iron kingdoms specified in Daniel.

[seanD]

By futurist I assume you mean not entirely fulfilled by end of the 1st century. Not sure what seems contradictory but my comments were focused on looking at a few points in history to determine identities of these players, starting with Alexander's Kingdom with North and South rising from it, obviously Seleucid and Ptolemaic, progressing through the various kingdoms. In other words a key to identifying any of these figures is considering who rules over Jerusalem at any given time, within the framework of brass and iron kingdoms specified in Daniel.

If you believe the OD is to be fulfilled again, then I didn't understand the nature of your mockery in that other thread in light of passages like Luke 21:31. Just sort of threw me for a loop and why I had to ask.

[Johnny Poochie]

Do you mean the Doomsday food? I do think that it's sad people try to make a buck off scaring people.

I see a repeat but I think the most intense battles are fought on a spiritual and psychological level, as in:

Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

[seanD]

I perfectly understand the thing you were mocking, I didn't understand the discussion context you put it in. That's what left me confused. But now that you've stated you're a futurist, there's no need for further confirmation.