Chaotes

**Celtic moon** · September 22nd 2010, 06:49 AM

"The first stage of seeing through the game can be a shocking enlightenment that leads either to a weary cynicism or Buddhism. The second stage of actually applying the insight to oneself can destroy the illusion of the soul and create a magician." Peter Carroll

Chaos Magic - which is as I understand it about belief -shifting; into whatever magical - system the believer chooses, they believe in that system totally while they're doing the work. Once the work is completed, they can continue to believe in the system, or discard it, as they choose. Belief shapes reality; everything is malleable. The Magick works with greater effectiveness because the urgency caused by chaos is substantially greater than that experienced by those who immerse their lives in the framework of an imposed order. How different is this to Discordianism? Are they both just another form of gnosis?

How do these no-fixed beliefs system express themselves tangiably besides in the differance of their style of magic?

**Zombie** · September 25th 2010, 07:56 PM

Originally posted by Lady Gooner

"The first stage of seeing through the game can be a shocking enlightenment that leads either to a weary cynicism or Buddhism. The second stage of actually applying the insight to oneself can destroy the illusion of the soul and create a magician." Peter Carroll

Chaos Magic - which is as I understand it about belief -shifting; into whatever magical - system the believer chooses, they believe in that system totally while they're doing the work. Once the work is completed, they can continue to believe in the system, or discard it, as they choose. Belief shapes reality; everything is malleable. The Magick works with greater effectiveness because the urgency caused by chaos is substantially greater than that experienced by those who immerse their lives in the framework of an imposed order. How different is this to Discordianism? Are they both just another form of gnosis?

How do these no-fixed beliefs system express themselves tangiably besides in the differance of their style of magic?

they work under the premise: magick works in practice but not in theory.

"The Magick works with greater effectiveness because the urgency caused by chaos is substantially greater than that experienced by those who immerse their lives in the framework of an imposed order"

i would say the magick works cause one has mastered the 'slight of mind techniques', not because of any tradition or framework. though, as far as i know the art needs a mode of expression, hence the framework.

discordianism and chaos magick are fairly similar in certain aspects.

the message is similar to bruce lee's vision of the martial arts: take what is useful and discard the rest..

**Celtic moon** · September 26th 2010, 11:09 AM

Originally posted by Zombie

they work under the premise: magick works in practice but not in theory.

i would say the magick works cause one has mastered the 'slight of mind techniques', not because of any tradition or framework. though, as far as i know the art needs a mode of expression, hence the framework.

Thanks for the reply Zombie,

So Magick could be described as Mind over matter. That is changing Consciousness in accordance to will, I believe, therefore it WILL happen.

the message is similar to bruce lee's vision of the martial arts: take what is useful and discard the rest..

So find out what works and then use it, as long as good results are present it is viable. That would make it highly individulistic I would think as what works for Joe might not work for Jane. Each practitioner being different, and since there isn't any real dogma , the ability to maintain a high level of self-confidence seems paramount.

Cheers again

**Zombie** · September 26th 2010, 11:54 AM

Originally posted by Lady Gooner

Thanks for the reply Zombie,

So Magick could be described as Mind over matter. That is changing Consciousness in accordance to will, I believe, therefore it WILL happen.

So find out what works and then use it, as long as good results are present it is viable. That would make it highly individulistic I would think as what works for Joe might not work for Jane. Each practitioner being different, and since there isn't any real dogma , the ability to maintain a high level of self-confidence seems paramount.

Cheers again

"So Magick could be described as Mind over matter. That is changing Consciousness in accordance to will, I believe, therefore it WILL happen. "

the definition as of late is: magick is the art of causing changes in nature in conformity with Will.
Will being quite a different thing from 'want'.

"So find out what works and then use it, as long as good results are present it is viable."

essentially find things that have a personal affinity. its not so much as things that work for joe may not work for jane, rather if both are sufficient in technique, results need a medium of symbolism to respond through( for more divinatory, inspirational works). joe prefers enochian symbolism of ben rowe's work where jane prefers the accouterments of santeria mixed with greek mystery tradition. at a point it comes down to skill and experience.

for more material results, symbolism is used more to get one 'in the mood' or to 'create a space'. in a nutshell, the technique is a sigilised statement of intent + gnostic state + forgetting the whole thing afterward. the forgetting part is usually the hardest for those who are on the brink of obsessing. there are work-arounds for that.

"Each practitioner being different, and since there isn't any real dogma , the ability to maintain a high level of self-confidence seems paramount."

dogma isnt really needed. the basic techniques will supply one, over time, with the belief system that originated from oneself.
self confidence is important but can be obtained by 'fake it till you make it". plus people drawn to such pursuits tend to be highly individualistic and idiosyncratic anyway so marching to ones own tune goes hand in hand.

but that is also why a working understanding of yoga is good, to be familiar with the mind and emotions from a practical perspective rather a theoretical one.
being a balanced person is a prized endeavor, all the more so one can purposefully unbalance oneself.