Preterism Is Dangerous

[Cerebrum123]

OBP, the problem is that there ARE people who believe in papal infallibility, and if they were preterist, I think then they would be even more likely to be deceived. Currently I am a futurist, but I am certainly willing to take a look at what the preterist position is all about, in fact I am still trying to read that link that dizzle gave me. So far there hasn't been anything I disagree with, but I haven't read very far into it.

[One Bad Pig]

Fearmongering is jumping the gun a bit, don’t you think?

Nah. It's perhaps a bit hyperbolic. However, after seeing your hot mess of a "problem" below, I'm beginning to think it's not so far from accurate.

I'm not fearmongering, I'm just having a discussion about a subject in the eschatological section where it’s appropriate to have such a discussion.

Now, you're just being a passive-aggressive dork. Of course it's appropriate to have such a discussion here.

Using an accusation of fearmongering is typically just ad hom. AlphaBravo did a similar move just recently. Or it could just be that the subject scares you and so you project that onto me, or interpret the discussion as fearmongering?

Seriously? Don't quit your day job; you're no armchair psychologist.

If Revelation is future, then it does a pretty good job of fearmongering on its own without my help. So by your definition, all futurists -- since they believe Rev is future – who discuss this subject are fearmongers.

You're gonna pull a muscle if you keep jumping to conclusions like that.

And I didn't necessarily say preterism was dangerous; that was a statement made by the author of the thread. I was countering your argument that the futurism/preterism debate was a nonessential in Christian discussions, and I explained why I think you're wrong. That’s all.

Don't go running away from the implications of your own arguments now. You countered the argument by alleging that preterists would necessarily be unprepared to deal with deception. If that were true, and preterism were false, then preterism would be dangerous.

The problem with your argument about testing the spirits is that it sounds like you’re grossly underestimating the potential deception. We don't always test the spirits with everything we do in this world because a lot of things we participate in are purely worldly and have really nothing to do with anything religious or spiritual. If we did, then I doubt most of us as Christians would do much of anything in the world accept attend religious services. So if the deception just looked like economic progress that would greatly benefit humanity (especially if the world suffered a great upheaval of sorts), then why would a preterist, not expecting any such deception, have any real reason to reject it? They would have to first admit they were wrong in order to find a reason to reject it.

What. Are. You. Smoking? It sounds like you're, um, fearmongering. In part, that could be because you separate the spiritual from everything else. We should do everything, as far as is possible, to the glory of God. He should be a part of every decision we make. If the deception, as you describe it, has nothing to do with the spiritual, then how is the futurist any better prepared to see through it?

[One Bad Pig]

OBP, the problem is that there ARE people who believe in papal infallibility, and if they were preterist, I think then they would be even more likely to be deceived. Currently I am a futurist, but I am certainly willing to take a look at what the preterist position is all about, in fact I am still trying to read that link that dizzle gave me. So far there hasn't been anything I disagree with, but I haven't read very far into it.

Then the issue is with papal infallibility, not preterism.

[seanD]

Nah. It's perhaps a bit hyperbolic. However, after seeing your hot mess of a "problem" below, I'm beginning to think it's not so far from accurate.

Now, you're just being a passive-aggressive dork. Of course it's appropriate to have such a discussion here.

Seriously? Don't quit your day job; you're no armchair psychologist.

You're gonna pull a muscle if you keep jumping to conclusions like that.
Don't go running away from the implications of your own arguments now. You countered the argument by alleging that preterists would necessarily be unprepared to deal with deception. If that were true, and preterism were false, then preterism would be dangerous.

What. Are. You. Smoking? It sounds like you're, um, fearmongering. In part, that could be because you separate the spiritual from everything else. We should do everything, as far as is possible, to the glory of God. He should be a part of every decision we make. If the deception, as you describe it, has nothing to do with the spiritual, then how is the futurist any better prepared to see through it?

So you resort to the kiddy tactic of name calling where none was thrown your way prior to that, butchered and obfuscated my post into out-context soundbites so I can't respond to any real point you're making, and then run to the tektonic thread to show the gossiping little girl that you are, all in one shot. I'll take as the discussion is over and you're a sore loser.

[Dee Dee Warren]

Actually he showed your point for the foolish twaddle it was.

[One Bad Pig]

So you resort to the kiddy tactic of name calling where none was thrown your way prior to that, butchered and obfuscated my post into out-context soundbites so I can't respond to any real point you're making, and then run to the tektonic thread to show the gossiping little girl that you are, all in one shot. I'll take as the discussion is over and you're a sore loser.

Whatever makes you feel better. It appears my work here is done.

[Darfius]

I think what sean meant is that the deception likely will not involve a man dressed in black whose name is Nicolae Carpathia flying around on jet 216 and giving speeches about how Jesus Christ was a fraud. Rather, the deception will be so pervasive, so all-encompassing, so powerful and yet so subtle, that if possible, even the elect will be "taken in." As the deception is specifically said to be crafted for those who "refuse to love the truth and so be saved" and "deny the truth by their wickedness", it will be as tempting to believe in on the worldview scale as sin is tempting to give in to on the individual scale. Only those committed to the truth in a real, self-denying way will stand a chance of resisting a delusion that powerful, whether it was in the first century or closer to our time. Though like many things, such a deception is not really accounted for in the preterist version of events. I suspect that after a little handwaving it is equated to the ever present choice between sin and repentance, despite the fact that both Gabriel and Paul treat it as a specific time of delusion and "the truth being thrown to the ground" and "deceit being made to prosper."

[Catholicity]

I think what sean meant is that the deception likely will not involve a man dressed in black whose name is Nicolae Carpathia flying around on jet 216 and giving speeches about how Jesus Christ was a fraud. Rather, the deception will be so pervasive, so all-encompassing, so powerful and yet so subtle, that if possible, even the elect will be "taken in." As the deception is specifically said to be crafted for those who "refuse to love the truth and so be saved" and "deny the truth by their wickedness", it will be as tempting to believe in on the worldview scale as sin is tempting to give in to on the individual scale. Only those committed to the truth in a real, self-denying way will stand a chance of resisting a delusion that powerful, whether it was in the first century or closer to our time. Though like many things, such a deception is not really accounted for in the preterist version of events. I suspect that after a little handwaving it is equated to the ever present choice between sin and repentance, despite the fact that both Gabriel and Paul treat it as a specific time of delusion and "the truth being thrown to the ground" and "deceit being made to prosper."

Whats your point/ How much of Germany actually believed Hitler and how many were afraid of him? Ditto with the Roman Empire. How many really believed and how many were just terrified of them? Your giving evil WAYYYY too much credit. Deceit prospers now just look around you; if you can't see it your blind. Your so wrapped up in seeking the apocalypse your forgetting the missions that need to be done now.
In fact thats the danger of believing the "left behind melodrama" you get so wrapped up in preparing for Jesus to come that you forget to do for those who need it the most now. I'll take the doers over the talkers anyday

[seanD]

Whats your point/ How much of Germany actually believed Hitler and how many were afraid of him? Ditto with the Roman Empire. How many really believed and how many were just terrified of them? Your giving evil WAYYYY too much credit. Deceit prospers now just look around you; if you can't see it your blind. Your so wrapped up in seeking the apocalypse your forgetting the missions that need to be done now.
In fact thats the danger of believing the "left behind melodrama" you get so wrapped up in preparing for Jesus to come that you forget to do for those who need it the most now. I'll take the doers over the talkers anyday

Explain to me how discussing this subject in a forum translates to "forgetting the missions that need to be done now"? What gives you the right to be that judgmental towards us when you know absolutely nothing about what we do in our real lives?

[Darfius]

Whats your point/ How much of Germany actually believed Hitler and how many were afraid of him? Ditto with the Roman Empire. How many really believed and how many were just terrified of them? Your giving evil WAYYYY too much credit. Deceit prospers now just look around you; if you can't see it your blind. Your so wrapped up in seeking the apocalypse your forgetting the missions that need to be done now.
In fact thats the danger of believing the "left behind melodrama" you get so wrapped up in preparing for Jesus to come that you forget to do for those who need it the most now. I'll take the doers over the talkers anyday

Being so afraid that you give in to evil is another form of deception, as one becomes convinced that "going along to get along" serves them best when, in fact, cowards find their own special place in the lake of fire. Cowards can find no end of ways to rationalize their cowardice and many people begin to believe the propoganda when they repeat it enough.

And the absurdity of you presuming to know what I or any futurist does for "those who need it the most now" doesn't even require a response.

[maudman]

Preterism isn't dangerous..

Preterism is the witness of the Fathers will, on earth as it is in heaven..
Consider these verses from deduction..

Matthew 11

20 Then Jesus began to denounce the towns in which most of his miracles had been performed, because they did not repent. 21 “Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. 22 But I tell you, it will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgment than for you. 23 And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted to the heavens? No, you will go down to Hades.[e] For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Sodom, it would have remained to this day. 24 But I tell you that it will be more bearable for Sodom on the day of judgment than for you.”

Consider how Christ is explaining the fate of these cities as they exist no more.. And according to Christ if his works had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented and been preserved. Too notice Sodom and how it would have existed in Christ time if Christ's works had been done in its time..

These verses bare witness to answer the question that Abraham asked Centuries or millennia before.. Just before Sodom and Gomorrah's destruction when he asked the Lord what it would take to spare them..
Here's a prospective for those who don't understand preterism.. Those cities knew nothing of any prophecies and their fate wasn't determined by any of their understanding of Prophecies. They would still exist if they had understood things that had nothing to do with Prophetic vision..

I do have a question for those who still look at things as they like.. Considering the previous verses? What does that say about Romans and a city such as Rome that still exist and has for over two thousand years.. And what does that say about Germany or any other city that still exist.. The preterism is I'm not Worried about it, because I know there are many righteous in those cities as there are in others.. But before everyone starts lathering themselves up? You may consider just how long your faith has been around when judging others faith..

Peace and Godbless

[TyRockwell]

You are an awesome pig. Why do people say you are bad?

One Bad Pig was a Christian punk music band in the mid-1980s. I'm not kidding. They were bad, as in not good. A lot of Christians, DID like them, though, squeals and all. I suppose those Christians were subject to being deceived.

[TyRockwell]

I see there have been quite a number of posts made here since my last serious post. Admitting that my post, above, is rather frivolous, I'll say that I hope to respond to some points made, both for and against the main topic. It is too late an hour for me to get into indepth discussions.
I agree that there is far too much a fearful perspective by most full futurists in their interpretations of prophecy. I call my point of view "Partial Futurism." It is strange to me, that I get lumped in with "dispensationals" simply because I believe the millenium is still to come. I already believe that far more prophecies have been fulfilled than most futurists know. I also see no reason to justify a fearful outlook on the prophecies that are in place, and coming to pass, now, and in the future.
I agree that having too much fear of things that may be in the future, is giving too much credit to evil, as Catholicity28 said. As to deception, the greatest deception I see, is the idea that the churches cannot do anything about evil, and that it is pre-ordained that evil will have its way over the church, unless they are "raptured." It is also too much faith in evil's power. From this perspective, deception is in full forword motion, and the church needs to wake up and grow a Bible-based backbone.

[One Bad Pig]

One Bad Pig was a Christian punk music band in the mid-1980s. I'm not kidding.

Yes, that's where I got the name.

They were bad, as in not good. A lot of Christians, DID like them, though, squeals and all. I suppose those Christians were subject to being deceived.

[eudyptes]

One Bad Pig was a Christian punk music band in the mid-1980s. I'm not kidding. They were bad, as in not good. A lot of Christians, DID like them, though, squeals and all. I suppose those Christians were subject to being deceived.

...really? You equate personal musical taste with deception...or was that in jest?