Pay women more...so you can fire them!

[Chrs]

I looked at the link he posted about "shaming tactics"

All I could think is that the name of the blog, "Feminism Exposed" - was some sort of feminist streaking rally

(The content really wasn't that interesting.)

[Crow]

Yes, like my daughter's father had three kids (and one stillborn, shortly before we conceived, and the main reason for his mental state at the time) to four separate mothers, but did not/could not knuckle down and share responsibility... and in his younger years pretty much couldn't keep it in his pants either. Yes, he's an excellent worker (I've worked with him, he trained me in basic labouring skills), he's got a great business head etc; but he's not a family man, and has left three separate women to shoulder the parenting responsibilities on their own. I'm saying that, he's willing to be a provider if you just shut up and do as you're told, and accept your weekly handout (10% of his earnings) without ever wanting to get your own money or independence (he wouldn't even let me do further education from home, the weirdo, lol). Most women don't accept that sort of behaviour in this day and age, and it seems that every girlfriend and wife of his has been one of them, as he's never managed more than four years with anyone.

On the plus side, he has maintained an emotional bond with his daughter, and as time has gone on he has voluntarily started paying for more stuff for her (at the start there wasn't a penny, but I perservered because I knew she was eminently lovable, and you always buy stuff for people you love, if you have the money... besides which there is no legal obligation given that we live in separate countries as far as the financey people are concerned). It doesn't make up for the lack of support in day to day stuff, but it's good to see him slowly soften on the chauvenism as his daughter grows, because he loves her in the right way, I think. She loves him too, though as time goes on, the love is becoming less unquestioning! He responds better to her criticism than he ever did to mine, but again, only a good thing if it means he starts to behave better.

It's made me think that chauvenists have maybe never properly loved a woman (agape sorta thing, not lust), because if you ever did, you couldn't possibly remain in that mindset. But that's just my opinion, if you get me.

What makes me feel sad and angry is that this guy is only willing to step up to the plate and provide for his child if that child is appealing to him and if the mother does not hold him to his responsibility to provide for his own child.

Folks ought to provide for their own minor child. No ifs, ands, or buts. I might be reading this wrong, but it sounds as if he only feels that he needs to (minimally) support his daughter if he likes her, likes what she is doing, likes how her mother responds to him.....and that is one hellish relationship to have with one's own child. It makes her responsible to be pleasing to her dad, and I'm sorry, but IMHO a young child should not be obligated to make mommy and daddy happy in order to get basic support.

Kids aren't always pleasing--in some developmental stages they are anything but pleasing in some ways. I only provide for you if you make me feel good and if your mommy does what I want her to is one hell of a sword to hang over a kid's head. I feel for you and your daughter. I hope that y'all can find a way to not have to rely on triggering an irresponsible jerk's flawed sense of responsibility. That is one terrible burden for both of you and one that neither of you should have to bear.

[shadowmaster]

The shadowmaster loves wimmin and defends them from evil doers.

[CodewordConduit]

What makes me feel sad and angry is that this guy is only willing to step up to the plate and provide for his child if that child is appealing to him and if the mother does not hold him to his responsibility to provide for his own child.

Folks ought to provide for their own minor child. No ifs, ands, or buts. I might be reading this wrong, but it sounds as if he only feels that he needs to (minimally) support his daughter if he likes her, likes what she is doing, likes how her mother responds to him.....and that is one hellish relationship to have with one's own child. It makes her responsible to be pleasing to her dad, and I'm sorry, but IMHO a young child should not be obligated to make mommy and daddy happy in order to get basic support.

Kids aren't always pleasing--in some developmental stages they are anything but pleasing in some ways. I only provide for you if you make me feel good and if your mommy does what I want her to is one hell of a sword to hang over a kid's head. I feel for you and your daughter. I hope that y'all can find a way to not have to rely on triggering an irresponsible jerk's flawed sense of responsibility. That is one terrible burden for both of you and one that neither of you should have to bear.

It's the world we live in, nobody is obligated to do squat, and unless you're incredibly fortunate, you're always having to please somebody. My own relationship with my father was the exact same, except that unlike my father, hers never lays a hand on her on speaks to her improperly; because yeah, that is a definite line for me. Should he start to upset her, then the situation will obviously be reviewed. Don't get me wrong, I can provide for her basic needs, on crap money; but I'm not standing in the way of her getting nice things just because he does it because he wants to, rather than feeling like he has to.

She "displeases" him loads, she can behave terribly towards him sometimes - she's hit him and screamed at him never to visit again just because he said it was time to go home when we were at the fair, and yeah he was visibly upset but restrained himself from any displays of anger, though I had to make the pair of them sit down and talk it through later on, cause they were each cold-shouldering the other... But they did sort it out, and if she tells me something like she feels like he never says nice things about her, I pass it on, and he attempts to change. He's never once emotionally blackmailed her, and I'm a big girl, I can deal with the way he is with me. I wouldn't stand for him doing that to her.

You're right in that it's sad we had to go through a couple of years at the start where there was no real bond to speak of, and "best behaviour" on my part was a must. And obviously I'll never forget it. But that's life, when you want "extras" from somebody not legally obliged to give them.

[Nicholas]

One would think that it shouldn't be necessary to point out that a major reason that women are in the workforce is because one income is not enough to sustain a family in modern society. And then there is the fact that women have to often work a second shift because even today it is the norm that men do far less than their share of household chores than women, and aren't paid for this. None of us would be here if it weren't for the work of a woman.

I could then of course get started on how I consider it a self-evident fact that all human beings are of equal value and should be given equal opportunities and paid the same for comparable work. I could show you arguments from people writing in the late 18th century and 19th century who understood the concept behind this.

[lilpixieofterror]

I'm suspecting he lost out on a promotion to a woman he deemed less qualified, hence the "she may be my boss but she certainly isn't my superior" attitude being exhibited.

Maybe, but it is funny that he seems to ignore that just as many 'good ole boys' get by the very same way. How many of us can say that we knew somebody that wouldn't get fired because they were friends with the boss, related to the owner/boss, or seemed to know something that kept them from getting fired? The reality is, these people exist everywhere and cross both sexes so to single out women and pretend men don't do the same thing is well... absurd...

[Darth Executor]

And then there is the fact that women have to often work a second shift because even today it is the norm that men do far less than their share of household chores than women, and aren't paid for this.

From my own observation men are a lot less likely to care about vital household chores women find essential. If my wife demanded that each of us vacuum once a week I'd just laugh. I vacuum once a year, if that. Cooking is probably the most time consuming chore I care about, and I enjoy that so I don't even consider it a chore.

[Rational Gaze]

You only need to hoover/vacuum if there is lots of fluff/hair/animal fur/dust/whatever on the floor. By lots I mean, to the extent that it covers the whole floor of said room and it is highly visible.

[Darth Executor]

You only need to hoover/vacuum if there is lots of fluff/hair/animal fur/dust/whatever on the floor. By lots I mean, to the extent that it covers the whole floor of said room and it is highly visible.

Even then it might just be easier to buy another rug and put it on top of the old one.

I know people who vacuum religiously though. And scrubbing every corner of the kitchen with dangerous chemicals. Out of sight, out of mind as far as I'm concerned.

[NeilUnreal]

I have two criteria for cleaning:

1) When you reach under the couch for a piece of leftover pizza and can't find it for all the other trash, it's time to clean the living room.

2) When you're afraid to walk past the bathroom door carrying open containers of food, it's time to clean the bathroom.

-Neil

[Rational Gaze]

The one benefit of living with a woman with OCD is, you rarely have to clean anything yourself. Sometimes even your own things, which can be annoying if they organise your stuff differently than to how you normally do it after cleaning.

[lilpixieofterror]

You only need to hoover/vacuum if there is lots of fluff/hair/animal fur/dust/whatever on the floor. By lots I mean, to the extent that it covers the whole floor of said room and it is highly visible.

Ewww.....

[princesa]

my husband will clean b/c he doesn't want to hear my mouth, i just don't know how men can stand a dirty bathroom. I don't care if the house is a bit messy (well i do care actually but a few things here and there can be put away) but CLEAN THE TOILETS MEN! and the floors next to it, and behind it as well. For goodness sakes.

if my bathroom and kitchen are clean, no dishes in the sink, no jackets hanging over chairs or socks on the floors, if the floors are swept and my fridge is stocked i'm a happy camper.

[lilpixieofterror]

my husband will clean b/c he doesn't want to hear my mouth, i just don't know how men can stand a dirty bathroom. I don't care if the house is a bit messy (well i do care actually but a few things here and there can be put away) but CLEAN THE TOILETS MEN! and the floors next to it, and behind it as well. For goodness sakes.

if my bathroom and kitchen are clean, no dishes in the sink, no jackets hanging over chairs or socks on the floors, if the floors are swept and my fridge is stocked i'm a happy camper.

When I was single and lived alone, I kept my place very cleaned up (plus the fact I have allergies to dust, helps provide a good motivation to keep things cleaned up). Now, it's a little messy, but on it's way to be neat and orderly again.

[lao tzu]

... and behind it as well.

What in all of the gods' green earth are you doing behind the toilet? Gawd, woman!