How Can Jesus Be "GOD" and Have a "God" At The Same Time?

**no count** · October 12th 2010, 10:47 AM

How can Jesus be “God” and have a “God” at the same time?

The God of the Bible is the Almighty, the Creator, the Most High, and no one compares to Him. Jesus Christ cannot be “God” if he says that our heavenly Father is his “God.”

You cannot be the “Most High God” and be in submission to the “Most High God” (1 Cor.15:28) and say that He is your God. This makes no sense.

If words truly have meaning, then one cannot be “God” and have a “God” at the same time.

Check out the verses below that clearly show that our Father is the “God” of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Ephesians 1:17
I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better.

Romans 15:6
…so that with one heart and mouth you may glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Corinthians 1:3
Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort…

Ephesians 1:3
Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ.

1 Peter 1:3
Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ!

The above verses are very clear. Jesus Christ has a God. Who is the God of our Lord Jesus Christ? Ephesians 1:17 very clearly says that this God is our glorious Father.

Jesus Christ himself called our Father his “God” and Father many different times in Scripture.

John 20:17 (KJV)
…I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'"

Revelation 3:12
Him who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will he leave it. I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on him my new name.

Revelation 3:21
To him who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I overcame and sat down with my Father on his throne.

**bling** · October 12th 2010, 05:17 PM

This question has gone on for centuries and maybe since the first century. How can you discribe an indiscribable relationship as we find between God and Jesus.

**barnasha** · October 12th 2010, 07:11 PM

Of course the complicated doctrine of the 'church fathers' raises a lot of troubling questions.

If one sticks to the teachings of Abraham, Moses, and Jesus, things are deadly simple.

**fm93** · October 12th 2010, 07:23 PM

I don't see how this is a problem any more than saying that the legislative branch is the federal government, and the judicial branch is the federal government and yet there is only one federal government.

**barnasha** · October 12th 2010, 08:48 PM

The single most important creed of Abrahamic religion is that God is one, indivisible; the above are divisions of a federal government.

**fm93** · October 12th 2010, 11:34 PM

I assume you're referring to Deuteronomy 6:4. The word that is translated "one" is 'echad, which is the same word used in Genesis 2:24 ("one flesh") and Genesis 34:16 ("we will become one people"). From the way it is used in those other verses, it is clear that 'echad can refer to a composite unity--which fits precisely within the parameters of Trinitarian theology.

**jo7241974** · October 13th 2010, 03:05 AM

no count;3095300]How can Jesus be “God” and have a “God” at the same time?

The God of the Bible is the Almighty, the Creator, the Most High, and no one compares to Him. Jesus Christ cannot be “God” if he says that our heavenly Father is his “God.”

You cannot be the “Most High God” and be in submission to the “Most High God” (1 Cor.15:28) and say that He is your God. This makes no sense.

If words truly have meaning, then one cannot be “God” and have a “God” at the same time.

Check out the verses below that clearly show that our Father is the “God” of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Ephesians 1:17
I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better.

Romans 15:6
…so that with one heart and mouth you may glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Corinthians 1:3
Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort…

Ephesians 1:3
Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ.

1 Peter 1:3
Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ!

The above verses are very clear. Jesus Christ has a God. Who is the God of our Lord Jesus Christ? Ephesians 1:17 very clearly says that this God is our glorious Father.

Jesus Christ himself called our Father his “God” and Father many different times in Scripture.

It is very simply. I came to my understanding while still a child being raised in the Lutheran faith.

Jesus Christ is the Son of Almighty God, our Father in Heaven. Jesus is a God in His own right. His Father IS our Father as well. His God is our God. The Holy Spirit is a Spirit chosen by Father to be a witness of Father and Son, and to be God's messenger between Heaven and earth. Nothing secretive

The theory of the trinity is confusing and does not explain away the questionable passages simply because it is incorrect. No amount of philosophyising or exegesis or explanations that force our minds to contemplate any type of mysticism or mystery is unnecessary. These things become a stumbling block.

God bless,

jo

**barnasha** · October 13th 2010, 09:12 AM

Yes, that is why Jesus said,

"OUR" father.

**Hamster** · October 13th 2010, 12:07 PM

The Son worships the Father, particularly after the incarnation when The Son took on human nature. Early Christians took the Jewish language about God (The One Lord and the One God of Israel) and applied those titles to the Son and the Father respectively. That is the conventional language they chose when talking about YHWH who appears as both a Father (God) and a Son (Lord)

The theory of the trinity is confusing and does not explain away the questionable passages simply because it is incorrect.

The trinity actually meshes nicely with first century beliefs/language about God, and in my opinion the concept is absolutely sublime in its grandeur.

**barnasha** · October 13th 2010, 12:40 PM

Originally posted by Hamster

The Son worships the Father, particularly after

all sons of God worshiped God, if they didn't how could they be sons?

It is a trinitarian concept that there is "the son" and "the father", but this is extrabiblical.

there are more than one 'son' in the bible and Jesus refers to the God of all mankind as father, (and he even says "our father", in case for some reason trinitarian doctrine has confused you enough not to understand this)

**apostoli** · October 14th 2010, 06:22 AM

Originally posted by barnasha

all sons of God worshiped God, if they didn't how could they be sons?

Guess you haven't read Genesis is very much of the OT...

Many a son doesn't worship their father. The typical condition is they rebel against their father, so your assumption is illogical. There is no correlation between God being worshipped and God being the "father" of all. In fact it's a counter intuitive assumption. God being God doesn't need anything, especially some ego boosting worship thingy. I reckon he'd rather be loved and appreciated, like we love and appreciate our human parent/s. (Cp Hosea 6:6)

Originally posted by barnasha

is a trinitarian concept that there is "the son" and "the father", but this is extrabiblical.

Its emphatic in the NT, so it is biblical!!!

In the OT the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is plainly revealed as the messenger of YHWH. What the Jewish Targums call the "memra of YHWH" and A.John refers to as the Logos. Jesus indicated he was that one eg: Jn 8:40,58.

Originally posted by barnasha

there are more than one 'son' in the bible

Actually the term "son" in association with God is used very rarely in the OT - there are four contexts: in Genesis a reference to angels or possibly the linage of Seth; in Job we have a reference to angels; in the Psalms a reference to the nation of Israel and the Messianic King.

Nowhere in the OT are people called sons of God. More importantly, God is never thought of as father of anybody before the Babylonian exile. I can only recall one scripture that suggests such = Malachi 2:10 "Have we not all one father? Hath not one God created us?" Compare Jesus' chat with those that believed in him at John 8.31-39, to the Jew, Abraham was primarily their father, God was an after thought (John 8:40-43).

It is worth noting that in the prophets Israel is likened to a harlot in their relationship with God. Think on that. If you are a son of God and his bride, then by Moses' law you both should be put to death...but, if you knew that sonship was a legal title, a symbolic word indicating inheritence rights, you'd understand what the OT was talking about...

Originally posted by barnasha

and Jesus refers to the God of all mankind as father, (and he even says "our father", in case for some reason trinitarian doctrine has confused you enough not to understand this)

I notice you are not one to cite scripture to support your personal speculations. Neither the OT nor the NT says we are directly sons! The NT says we are sons by adoption...

Eph 1:3-6 ¶ Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [places] in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved

The NT says that God sent his only begotten Son (Jn 3:16,18; 1 Jn 4:9), that is the only one of its kind. Hence Jesus does not say "our God" at jn 20:17 but "my God, and your God". It is very simple really, as the bride of Christ (the Lamb's wife = Rev 21:9) those so privilaged, like all wives, are adopted into the family of their husband. The Son being truely son requires no adoption. And like all true sons, the son is whatever his father is (Jn 12:45; 14:9; Heb 1:3; Phil 2:6; Col 2:9)!

Now, in the Lord's prayer (Mt 6:9) we have another aspect. The father of the son is as Trinitarian theology teaches the source and cause of the Son through whom all things were created (Jn 1:1-3; 1 Cor 8:6; Col 1:15-17), thus is to all father, or if you prefer to use modern terminology, to all, our grand father. But as the Son was caused within eternity, and by definition there is no time in eternity we can't sensibly attribute precedence in time to either the Father or the Son, but we can in terms of functionality - as the terms father and son so designate .

Either you declare Jesus a false prophet and inflamed by demons as some in his day did (Jn 8:48) or you acknowledge him as the only Son of God as A.John appeals in his Gospel and letters (Jn 20;31; 1 Jn 4:15; 5:10-13; 5:20).

I suggest you contemplate Philippians 2:5 and reflect on it in the context of Galatians 2:20, then you might gain some understanding of what Christianity is all about...

I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.

**barnasha** · October 14th 2010, 09:11 AM

no, the *english* NT says jesus is the "only begotten" son.. moreover its from the anonymously written "gospel of John" and not even from a purported quote of Jesus.

it is clear that you "believe" in trinitarian doctrine, I don't... i only go from the bible... no mention of 'god persons' or three part gods in any books of the bible.

more importantly, none of the jews ever worshiped like this and JEsus didn't change anything about the hebrew religion.

I respect your right to form your own views (or to accept doctrines).